Constructive Criticism of La Premiere

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Old Dec 31, 16, 12:18 pm
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Originally Posted by San Gottardo View Post
+1000!!!

I am categorically for having Internet access on board of all planes, especially on long haul flights. But none of them should give access to voice over IP, nor to sites where people can download films or other large files.

I am glad to hear that the connection quality onboard AF was good.
totally agree!!! Wishing you all a very happy new year from... 2017!
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Old Jan 4, 17, 3:33 am
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Gotta say....just flew SQ Suites from JFK-FRA two nights ago, and while AF P is leagues ahead of them on ground experience, the SQ catering is several places ahead of AF. Between a substantial (+/- 30g) full caviar service, (and another on request with breakfast,) snow crab soup and lobster thermidor, it was a meal that would not have been out of place at a 1-Michelin-star restaurant, and which I would have paid EUR250 for on the ground and been well pleased. AF P catering is solid, but it still seems like airplane food at the end of the day.
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Old Jan 4, 17, 3:55 am
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Originally Posted by FrenchMerican View Post
Gotta say....just flew SQ Suites from JFK-FRA two nights ago, and while AF P is leagues ahead of them on ground experience, the SQ catering is several places ahead of AF. Between a substantial (+/- 30g) full caviar service, (and another on request with breakfast,) snow crab soup and lobster thermidor, it was a meal that would not have been out of place at a 1-Michelin-star restaurant, and which I would have paid EUR250 for on the ground and been well pleased. AF P catering is solid, but it still seems like airplane food at the end of the day.
AF is by no means the best onboard P food. SQ is indeed better, but I personally much prefer JL which I find a whole league above (and best Champagne too!).

AF wins hands down against everyone else on ground services including ground food though.
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Old Jan 4, 17, 10:02 am
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Originally Posted by FrenchMerican View Post
Gotta say....just flew SQ Suites from JFK-FRA two nights ago, and while AF P is leagues ahead of them on ground experience, the SQ catering is several places ahead of AF. Between a substantial (+/- 30g) full caviar service, (and another on request with breakfast,) snow crab soup and lobster thermidor, it was a meal that would not have been out of place at a 1-Michelin-star restaurant, and which I would have paid EUR250 for on the ground and been well pleased. AF P catering is solid, but it still seems like airplane food at the end of the day.
I flew 4 long haul (longer than JFK-FRA) SQ First flights last year and must disagree.
On all 4 flights, the food in SQ First was borderline inedible including said BTC lobster thermidor. First Class is the entire experience. And while some airlines may indeed have better inflight food, only Garuda Indonesia comes close to the overall package (ground and inflight) of Air France, especially on the 77W.
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Old Jan 4, 17, 1:46 pm
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Originally Posted by SFO777 View Post
I flew 4 long haul (longer than JFK-FRA) SQ First flights last year and must disagree.
On all 4 flights, the food in SQ First was borderline inedible including said BTC lobster thermidor. First Class is the entire experience. And while some airlines may indeed have better inflight food, only Garuda Indonesia comes close to the overall package (ground and inflight) of Air France, especially on the 77W.
No argument on ground services and total package, and this was my very first time on an SQ aircraft, but I was quite impressed with the onboard experience and catering, (and I'm not easy to wow.) It's a single data point, though, so I'm sure there are counter-experiences out there.

I'm on AF again for my next trip to JFK, but would consider SQ again under the right circumstances. It's also 1/4-1/2 the AF price if using credit card points, so will be where most my points go henceforth.
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Old Jan 4, 17, 11:37 pm
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Originally Posted by SFO777 View Post
I flew 4 long haul (longer than JFK-FRA) SQ First flights last year and must disagree.
On all 4 flights, the food in SQ First was borderline inedible including said BTC lobster thermidor. First Class is the entire experience. And while some airlines may indeed have better inflight food, only Garuda Indonesia comes close to the overall package (ground and inflight) of Air France, especially on the 77W.
I think it's pretty hard to definitively separate the very top of the pyramid. I haven't flown GA F - but IMO F in AF, LH, LX, JL, NH, KE, EK and SQ are all very close with EY varying and CX/QR F certainly fairly close - although it has been awhile since flying F on QR - although their J might be in the same category. For the most part, it's splitting hairs - personal tastes on the menu being offered or a poorly heated meal. I will say on SQ I've noticed if you don't eat much of a dish it seems SOP to ask why, and make sure you don't want something else.
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Old Jan 5, 17, 3:39 am
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Originally Posted by elitetraveler;27707271[B
]I think it's pretty hard to definitively separate the very top of the pyramid. I haven't flown GA F - but IMO F in AF, LH, LX, JL, NH, KE, EK and SQ are all very close with EY varying and CX/QR F certainly fairly close[/B] - although it has been awhile since flying F on QR - although their J might be in the same category. For the most part, it's splitting hairs - personal tastes on the menu being offered or a poorly heated meal. I will say on SQ I've noticed if you don't eat much of a dish it seems SOP to ask why, and make sure you don't want something else.
Probably one of the wisest statements so far. As long as one doesn't include British Airways, AA or UA in this list then you are right that all of the above offer a great product, with no very clear winner across the board. A lot depends on personal tastes, how much importance one attaches to individual elements of the First product, individual "performance" on the day, etc.
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Old Jan 5, 17, 10:21 am
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Originally Posted by elitetraveler View Post
I think it's pretty hard to definitively separate the very top of the pyramid. I haven't flown GA F - but IMO F in AF, LH, LX, JL, NH, KE, EK and SQ are all very close with EY varying and CX/QR F certainly fairly close - although it has been awhile since flying F on QR - although their J might be in the same category. For the most part, it's splitting hairs - personal tastes on the menu being offered or a poorly heated meal. I will say on SQ I've noticed if you don't eat much of a dish it seems SOP to ask why, and make sure you don't want something else.
Yes, certainly tastes and preferences matter, but I think you'd have to remove from the top those that don't provide curb-to-curb personal assistance (e.g., CX, not sure which others). That should be an essential part of a FC product.

And FWIW, there are a couple of AA routes (LAX-SYD and I think LAX/DFW-HKG) where AA F comes with their "Five Star" ground service, which is that personal curb-to-curb escort and very favorably viewed. Catering has been stepped up on those routes, and there have definitely been reports of incredible cabin service, though I suppose they might not win points for consistency. The OneWorld F lounge at LAX is very competitive as well. On their best day, I think AA can play with the big boys...again, FWIW.
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Old Jan 5, 17, 12:49 pm
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Originally Posted by ijgordon View Post
Yes, certainly tastes and preferences matter, but I think you'd have to remove from the top those that don't provide curb-to-curb personal assistance (e.g., CX, not sure which others). That should be an essential part of a FC product.

And FWIW, there are a couple of AA routes (LAX-SYD and I think LAX/DFW-HKG) where AA F comes with their "Five Star" ground service, which is that personal curb-to-curb escort and very favorably viewed. Catering has been stepped up on those routes, and there have definitely been reports of incredible cabin service, though I suppose they might not win points for consistency. The OneWorld F lounge at LAX is very competitive as well. On their best day, I think AA can play with the big boys...again, FWIW.
I do give credit for AA's 'curb to plane' service for Intl F - however, my experience (at JFK and LAX) is it is merely a separate check-in are and then access to a shorter line, not a private direct security channel -- si unlike LH FCT of LH personal assistants at US check-in, SQ F check-in, TG F or QR J at JFK (same terminal but to a separate line at the very far right).

From what I've tasted of AA's 'improved' F menu (JFK-LAX/SFO) they are putting on food that sounds sexier but has been pretty average. FAs on PMAA continue their downward spiral - they are the new UA IMO.
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Old Jan 5, 17, 5:13 pm
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I was recently "upgraded" to AA First Class. THe flight was supposed to be on a J-only 772 but was then subbed for a 772 with the old F cabin. I realised that I was in the F seat as I had used that previously. But throughout the flight I was convinced that the rest of the service and in particular the meal service was the normal J class food served in First seats - until I was told by one of the FAs towards the end of the flight that in fact this had been a proper First Class full service. It was very very underwhelming... not complaining about having been given the more comfy seats, but I tell this anecdote to relate how unimpressive the soft product on AA First Class is.
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Old Jan 5, 17, 6:15 pm
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Originally Posted by San Gottardo View Post
But throughout the flight I was convinced that the rest of the service and in particular the meal service was the normal J class food served in First seats - until I was told by one of the FAs towards the end of the flight that in fact this had been a proper First Class full service. It was very very underwhelming...
What did the menu say? Having been on subbed 777s and indeed, upgraded to the F section several times, I was always served the J menu. The J and F food services on AA intercontinental have been differentiated quite substantively since July so the difference is usually pretty easy to tell. Or a simple symptom is the Champagne they serve you: LGPS = you get F, anunknown maison = you get J.
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Old Jan 5, 17, 6:26 pm
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Originally Posted by elitetraveler View Post
I think it's pretty hard to definitively separate the very top of the pyramid. I haven't flown GA F - but IMO F in AF, LH, LX, JL, NH, KE, EK and SQ are all very close with EY varying and CX/QR F certainly fairly close - although it has been awhile since flying F on QR - although their J might be in the same category. For the most part, it's splitting hairs - personal tastes on the menu being offered or a poorly heated meal. I will say on SQ I've noticed if you don't eat much of a dish it seems SOP to ask why, and make sure you don't want something else.
Originally Posted by San Gottardo View Post
Probably one of the wisest statements so far. As long as one doesn't include British Airways, AA or UA in this list then you are right that all of the above offer a great product, with no very clear winner across the board. A lot depends on personal tastes, how much importance one attaches to individual elements of the First product, individual "performance" on the day, etc.
I don't really agree. I think it might well be hard to choose, because many of those products are excellent and have different strengths and weaknesses, but it is actually very easy to differentiate. For instance, AF has an extremely comprehensive and high quality ground service at CDG for both O/D and transfers. By contrast, the ground services of JL are rubbish, there isn't even fast track security (admittedly Japanese security is so efficient anyway you hardly need it) and F lounge at both HND and NRT is rubbish. By contrast, there is no question of splitting hair when you compare the Salon they serve or their outstanding F food for both Japanese and European menus to the Champagne and (very good but not comparable) food you get on, say, LX.

Incidentally, I'm still puzzled so many people rate QR F very highly. I was really underwhelmed by it, maybe because their J is so good that I was expecting something brilliant?
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Old Jan 5, 17, 8:53 pm
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Originally Posted by orbitmic View Post

Incidentally, I'm still puzzled so many people rate QR F very highly. I was really underwhelmed by it, maybe because their J is so good that I was expecting something brilliant?
I think foodwise, including presentation, QR J beats BA F hands down -- but agree QR F is only slightly better than the J product - plus these days it's very limited --
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Old Jan 6, 17, 2:18 am
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Originally Posted by elitetraveler View Post
I think foodwise, including presentation, QR J beats BA F hands down -- but agree QR F is only slightly better than the J product - plus these days it's very limited --
yes and I think we are all agreed here BA F is nowhere near a serious yardstick for top notch F, so I think we are debating F on the likes of AF, LH, SQ, JL, GA, NH, EY (mediocre food but fab suites), etc.
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Old Jan 6, 17, 7:23 pm
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Originally Posted by orbitmic View Post
yes and I think we are all agreed here BA F is nowhere near a serious yardstick for top notch F, so I think we are debating F on the likes of AF, LH, SQ, JL, GA, NH, EY (mediocre food but fab suites), etc.
Any of them would be fine w me as well as LX --
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