ADP (Paris Airport management) invests in faster border controls

Old Nov 21, 16, 4:53 pm
  #31  
FlyerTalk Evangelist, Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Somewhere between 0 and 13,000 metres high
Programs: AF/KL Life Plat, BA GfL+CCR, Aclub Plat, Hilton Diam, Marriott Gold, blablablah, etc
Posts: 24,977
Originally Posted by San Gottardo View Post
Arrivals in Miami's AA terminal, all of which where notorious for very long lines at immigration
I wouldn't exonerate them of their reputation just yet. Two of my last three MIA arrivals took well over 2 hours to clear immigration (having used kiosks each time!)
orbitmic is offline  
Old Nov 22, 16, 2:50 am
  #32  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: SEA once more (previously CDG and NRT)
Programs: Former DL DM and UA 1k, now a free agent
Posts: 2,221
Originally Posted by SDQBound View Post
I've noticed that the Exit immigration control has become slower as well. On a Saturday afternoon, during non-vacation period, it took me at least half an hour through the SkyPriority line. The reason was understaffing. For my arrival flight, it took me at least 45 minutes to clear immigration (7:00 am, same time as Goldorak), the issue here was that the officers were asking a lot of questions to visitors (even those excempt from visa were being questioned about their lenght of stay and Financial resources).
Yes. Exit controls have been very slow. I've nearly missed a flight due to it - I was lucky my flight was boarding from the K gates. If it was L or M I wouldn't have made it. It has forced me to get to the airport earlier than in previous years.

I've got a 7:30am flight out of 2E on Thursday. Not looking forward to having to arrive early due to the uncertainty of wait times at exit controls.
SEA-Flyer is offline  
Old Nov 22, 16, 6:29 am
  #33  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: Eurostar Carte Blanche, SBB-CFF-FFS GA-AG, SNCF Grand Voyageur LeClub
Posts: 6,316
Originally Posted by stimpy View Post
There is if you fly AF P! At least at IAD I witnessed it. Driven to immigration in a private Mercedes and escorted to the front of the line. And bags arrived first before any others. Clearly AF pays the airport authority for the good service.
Yes and no. A number of airlines - AF is just one of them - offer their F or VIP pax a personal escort through immigration, which often includes jumping the queue or using the diplomatic channel. But that is not a priority lane in general, and in many cases the airline escort has to ask whether he/she can jump the queue with the pax. I doubt that Air France or any airline pays the airport for faster immigration (they probably do for the car transfer), as that isn't something that CBP "sells". I have conversed on that topic a number of times with LX and LH staff in North America, and they explained to me that they had their "friendships" and good relations at local CBP teams thanks to which this would be tolerated. The LX people for instance used generous amounts of chocolate (Swiss, not Hershey) to keep the CBP teams at JFK friendly (funnily enough they also do that with ATC, where some centers in Europe get chocolate mail from LX. When the LX flights e.g. from London to Zurich then get a "proceed direct Basel BLM" when they're just over the Channel the pilots call it "chocolate routing"). Also, bear in mind that at some airports even the personal escorts can't help with queue jumping. I think LAX was one of them, but to be honest I don't know thanks to GE.

Originally Posted by orbitmic View Post
I wouldn't exonerate them of their reputation just yet. Two of my last three MIA arrivals took well over 2 hours to clear immigration (having used kiosks each time!)
Ough... terrible. Last things I had heard was that it had gotten much much better. I feel for you.

But back to topic: indeed, the longest immigration lines that I can recall to have been in recently were in Paris CDG (not only 2E, but also in terminal 1) and London LHR, despite priority and access to biometric controls. So I am glad CDG is addressing the situation, and I sincerely hope that things will improve markedly.
San Gottardo is online now  
Old Nov 22, 16, 7:37 am
  #34  
FlyerTalk Evangelist, Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Somewhere between 0 and 13,000 metres high
Programs: AF/KL Life Plat, BA GfL+CCR, Aclub Plat, Hilton Diam, Marriott Gold, blablablah, etc
Posts: 24,977
Originally Posted by San Gottardo View Post
Ough... terrible. Last things I had heard was that it had gotten much much better. I feel for you.
I have a feeling it depends on the CBP team attitude on the day, maybe due to the fact that MIA is quite a "sensitive" point of entry. Some days, you queue with your receipt and they just take it from you, other times everyone seems to get a comprehensive interview at exit.

In fact, CBP publish wait times at immigration and when you look it shows that depending on entry point (there are three at MIA), day, and time, things can easily vary between 15 minutes and over 3 hours!
orbitmic is offline  
Old Nov 22, 16, 8:08 am
  #35  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Four Seasons Contributor BadgeMandarin Oriental Contributor Badge
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Seat 1A, Juice pretty much everywhere, Mucci des Coins Exotiques
Posts: 31,570
Originally Posted by San Gottardo View Post
I doubt that Air France or any airline pays the airport for faster immigration (they probably do for the car transfer),
That's what I meant. The car transfer and the keys to the special doors. And perhaps the extra attention from the baggage handlers.
stimpy is offline  
Old Nov 22, 16, 10:31 am
  #36  
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Programs: Flying Blue PFL
Posts: 46
Today I attended a lunch with the CEO of ADP and the long lines were one of the most popular subjects witrh him. He mentionned that he aims to have the first batch of "new PARAFE" by the very beginning of 2017. Not sure how they can speed up things this much, but that's what he mentioned.
CDGcommuter is offline  
Old Nov 22, 16, 2:34 pm
  #37  
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: RDU
Programs: DL SM, AAdvantage, SPG
Posts: 974
Originally Posted by orbitmic View Post
In fact, CBP publish wait times at immigration and when you look it shows that depending on entry point (there are three at MIA), day, and time, things can easily vary between 15 minutes and over 3 hours!
MIA definitely does vary -- at the North Terminal Immigration, one has to figure the banks of AA's international flights coming in. In my experience, times have improved, albeit slightly.

Hopefully this new system helps CDG.
FlyerWx is offline  
Old Nov 23, 16, 1:19 am
  #38  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hong Kong
Programs: FB AF Silver, BA Gold
Posts: 11,679
Originally Posted by CDGcommuter View Post
Today I attended a lunch with the CEO of ADP and the long lines were one of the most popular subjects witrh him. He mentionned that he aims to have the first batch of "new PARAFE" by the very beginning of 2017. Not sure how they can speed up things this much, but that's what he mentioned.
If he is smart and chose a system that is already operational at other European airports, that could be quick. But adding the fingerprint recognition specific to French passports must complicate things. Frankly, that is redundant and a bit stupid. I guess that they feel it is necessary for a transition period as the existing gates only use fingerprints. But that will create chaos.
brunos is offline  
Old Nov 23, 16, 4:42 am
  #39  
formerly B7e7US
Marriott Contributor Badge
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Santo Domingo, Dom. Rep. / Washington, DC
Programs: AA/DL PLT, Priority Pass, Marriott Gold, Thalys Gold, JetBlue Mosaic, Hertz PC, Other shiny cards
Posts: 4,142
Originally Posted by stimpy View Post
There is if you fly AF P! At least at IAD I witnessed it. Driven to immigration in a private Mercedes and escorted to the front of the line. And bags arrived first before any others. Clearly AF pays the airport authority for the good service.
F passengers at JFK use the A/G visas line (usually empty or with a few people only) but they are not escorted to the front of the line. They have to queue behind any official/diplomat already in the line.
SDQBound is offline  
Old Nov 23, 16, 4:44 am
  #40  
formerly B7e7US
Marriott Contributor Badge
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Santo Domingo, Dom. Rep. / Washington, DC
Programs: AA/DL PLT, Priority Pass, Marriott Gold, Thalys Gold, JetBlue Mosaic, Hertz PC, Other shiny cards
Posts: 4,142
Originally Posted by FlyerWx View Post
MIA definitely does vary -- at the North Terminal Immigration, one has to figure the banks of AA's international flights coming in. In my experience, times have improved, albeit slightly.

Hopefully this new system helps CDG.
The situation at MIA improved dramatically after 1) the new immigration hall and 2) the introduction of the automated passport control, but this was only at Terminal North. Terminal south is still the same chaos.
SDQBound is offline  
Old Nov 23, 16, 6:54 am
  #41  
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Hands of Fate
Programs: MR LT(!)TE, DL DM->PM MM, HTZ PC, 2V Fanboi, CBP GE, Uber Gold
Posts: 4,723
Originally Posted by brunos View Post
BTW: Just looking at the length of the line is not always a good indicator. If the waiting line is served by a large number of immigration agents with fast procedure (like in Hong Kong and even now the US), it will flow much faster than at CDG where they only open a few desks and control takes a very long time.
IME, HKG with long lines still means long waits. It typically takes me 30 minutes to clear there (early evening arrivals).

Originally Posted by NickB View Post
Of limited use to many Europeans, though: only NL, D and UK nationals are eligible for GE in Europe (setting aside US residents).
Well, specifically GE is a trusted traveler program with reciprocal privileges with the equivalent programs in those countries.

Looking at it from the US perspective, I can only use automated border controls in the EU in the above mentioned countries, and only with a separate enrollment in each program. Basically an expensive PITA.

In contrast, any return ESTA visitor can use the US Automated Passport Control kiosks (not the same ones as GE, but the same ones that any other US citizen or permanent resident can use), with no pre-enrollment required. Not every entry point has APC kiosks (an airport or airline has to pay for them), but they are at several key entry points.

Originally Posted by tff View Post
I might have been unlucky, but it took me 2h at JFK two weeks ago (having been among the first ones to deplane) as a returning ESTA.
Which terminal? JFK offers APC and mobile passport in select terminals, including T1 and T4. Were you unable to use these, or did the wait include getting to the kiosk or mobile passport checkpoint?

Originally Posted by San Gottardo View Post
Of course there is another difference, which is that there is nothing like a priority line at US airports, unlike CDG.
Well, specifically there are no official priority lines based on class of service or frequently flyer status. There are (usually) priority lines based on trusted traveller enrollment, short connections, and other considerations. And a common perk of the US FFPs for higher tier elites now is to pay for your GE enrollment.
bennos is offline  
Old Nov 23, 16, 8:38 am
  #42  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hong Kong
Programs: FB AF Silver, BA Gold
Posts: 11,679
Originally Posted by bennos View Post
IME, HKG with long lines still means long waits. It typically takes me 30 minutes to clear there (early evening arrivals).

.
You say "typically", so why don't you enroll in the Frequent Visitor program. It is open to the FFP members of most airlines and allows you to use your passport on the e-gates once your fingerprints have been taken at enrollment.

That being said, I have numerous family/friends who use the "human" chanel and they ahev never had to wait more than 20 minutes. You even have staff that direct you between A and B areas if one area ifs more crowded than the other.
brunos is offline  
Old Nov 23, 16, 8:37 pm
  #43  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: London, UK and Southern France
Posts: 16,209
Originally Posted by San Gottardo View Post
Err... yes. So? The point I was trying to make is that the US has upgraded its airports and places like T5 in Chicago or TBIT in Los Angeles or Intl. Arrivals in Miami's AA terminal, all of which where notorious for very long lines at immigration, have added between 25 and 50 GE kiosks. Which as written further up by another poster, takes pressure of "the system".
The point, given the readership of this particular forum, was that this would be this information would be of limited use to many, that's all. For many Europeans, especially on this board, the automated kiosks for VWP nationals have made a very significant difference; the extension of GE far less so given its more limited coverage and, in particular, the ineligibility of a very large proportion of the readers of this forum to the scheme.
NickB is offline  
Old Nov 23, 16, 8:57 pm
  #44  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: London, UK and Southern France
Posts: 16,209
Originally Posted by bennos View Post
Well, specifically GE is a trusted traveler program with reciprocal privileges with the equivalent programs in those countries.

Looking at it from the US perspective, I can only use automated border controls in the EU in the above mentioned countries, and only with a separate enrollment in each program. Basically an expensive PITA.
The purpose of my post was not to express a view as to whether the USA should be given a star for being a good boy at the top of the class or be made to sit on the naughty step. It was meant essentially as a factual statement, highlighting some relevant context for the readers of this board: many Europeans, and in particular many of the readers of this forum, have no access to GE.

So, knowing that GE kiosks work well and that there are plenty of them is interesting... in the same way as, say, knowing whether automated kiosks for EAC nationals at Kigali airport work well might be interesting, i.e. in the sense of being capable of satisfying intellectual curiosity ... but with little practical significance for many here, bearing in mind the readership. I would not have made the same comment on the KL, BA or LH forum, where the existence of GE and how well it functions is of far greater immediate relevance to a much larger proportion of the readers of those fora than is the case here.
NickB is offline  
Old Nov 23, 16, 9:06 pm
  #45  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Four Seasons Contributor BadgeMandarin Oriental Contributor Badge
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Seat 1A, Juice pretty much everywhere, Mucci des Coins Exotiques
Posts: 31,570
Originally Posted by bennos View Post
Looking at it from the US perspective, I can only use automated border controls in the EU in the above mentioned countries, and only with a separate enrollment in each program. Basically an expensive PITA.
Add another country to that expensive list in the UK. Yes it's still part of the EU. You can sign up for their Registered Traveler program as an American citizen (or several other countries). It's been a huge timesaver for me when traveling to the UK.

Back to the US, I entered at LAX today and gosh what a let down after lots of very good experiences at IAD this year. LAX does not support the mobile app, and they have some very clueless line monitors who mix up US citizens and visitors in the same lines. I got sent to a line behind a lot of visitors who were taking 10 minutes each and there was only a single agent. After about 20 minutes another agent came along, but still I was there quite a while. And when I finally made it to an agent I was through in less than a minute of course.

As for HKG, as mentioned above frequent flyers can easily get setup to use the E-Gates so there should never be a wait.
stimpy is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search Engine: