SFO777

Yep, that's the one. Although, it looks better from the outside.

orbitmic

Fully agreed. I think "everything" is key though because in many ways, as you point out later, several experiences have different strengths etc. For instance CX has really lovely lounges, but there is zero taking care of passengers between plane and lounge or lounge and plane and even no fast track at transfer security at all, etc.

Totally agree for all the bits I know, including taste-wise (I don't know the new LX E F lounge or the GVA one).

Totally agree

I'd put AF above in my limited experience, but then it may well be an artefact of three things: 1) When I have done AF P lounge was very empty so it felt extremely exclusive whilst when I've done the FCT it was quite busy so less so, 2) I'm FB Plat for life, and "only" *A G so pretty much a supposedly important customer for AF and a virtual nobody for LH, 3) cultural differences (I don't even speak German). I a more than happy to acknowledge that it may well bias my experiences.

Happy to defer to you there as I am never a departing pax with LH, AF, QR, EY but have only ever been a transfer pax with them. I can well imagine that the FCT must be fab for departing passengers. Equally, I've found it inconvenient as a transfer passenger and did not bother going there beyond the first time.

Fully agree -- and that's definitely the critical AF advantage for me here (again, tainted by the fact that I am almost always a transfer pax and almost always one of my flights will not be in F (if only because short haul!). Frankly, no other airline treats me as a special passenger throughout my trip, and notably connections are week, even with LH (if you arrive in Y, you really are a Y pax for all pratical purposes till you make it to an "F zone". Same with QR. With AF, you could arrive in a potato bag you'd still be made to feel super special the moment the bag is unloaded and made to disembark before any of the potatoes!

Fully agree.

Agree again, and I'd add that they have different "strengths". For instance, as mentioned, the QR resting rooms really are nice and I can even stay there to sleep several hours which avoids the need to pay for the expensive airport hotel. In fact, CX that I criticised earlier on the "movement" part also has great cabanas in the Wing and resting rooms in the Pier. I know LH has some at the FCT but not great and AF's are totally unsuitable to sleeping. Conversely, EY which I do not like so much gave me my favourite (free) spa treatment of any airline by far. AF is good but not nearly as generous, QR is paid only.

I would add that different people have different expectations, needs and priorities. For instance, as said, I'm a natural transfer passenger and I really think that AF are unbeatable on the transfer process. I also aren't a natural F passenger. J is typically good enough for me and enjoyable so if I am in F it really is a treat and I enjoy good food, good drinks, pampering etc. From that point of view, I love JL in the air (which has a ghastly ground product). But I know that some regular F pax couldn't care less about the food served onboard. In fact, some of the most regular F pax on the BA forum regularly point out they do not want caviar and lobster but prefer a homely mac&cheese option in F. I can easily believe them if they do that every week, but frankly, for me who does F a few rare times a year, I sure love the caviar, and JL's Salon or even AF's Comtes de Champagne when they serve it, and yes, the food at the P lounge was fabulous (to me) by airport lounge standards if nowhere near what you get in Ducasse's actual restaurants.

Our only possible slight disagreement. Yes, I agree you only get the full monty at the hubs, but with AF, I got escorted to the front of the packed immigration queue in the US. I don't know if it is regular or not but it was precious and I've never had that with LH, LX, BA, or AA. I must say that the escort from base at NCE and LHR were also very nice and when I pointed out I don't need company, they happily checked with me what time I'd like them to pick me up from lounge to plane and that was that. Maybe some people overdo it but mine were pretty good?

rolltide2

We recently had an overnight connection in Paris. AF rep met us at the plane, escorted us to the airport exit, drove us to our hotel (Hilton CDG), then picked us up the next morning at the hotel and drove us to the airport. I thought I had read enough to know what to expect with AF P, but this exceptional service surprised me.

orbitmic

Nope! Although they are currently building a F only check in-security channel which will go straight to the platform between CCR and GF. I believe that it is due to open next year.

For the rest, you may or may not be surprised that current BA CEO Alex Cruz apparently considering that BA F is too extravagant an experience is working out on trying to make it worse. They have taken out the bathroom flower, the tasting menu, the bistro selection, the amuse bouche and undoubtedly have plenty more ideas to ensure that BA F feels more "Vueling like".

ulxima

Lovely report SFO777, I have been drooling all the way through it :-D
I was tempted to forward it to Mrs. Ulxima but I decided not to. I will let her experience the Premiere from HKG to CDG without any preview ;-)
I agree completely with what you wrote you about AF and the other carriers.

Ciao
Ulxima

San Gottardo

In fact we don't even disagree. I just didn't write out my full perspective on this. Which is that AF does offer personal escorting through security at many outstations for its F pax, but apart from a Premiere part of the lounge does in fact not offer anything more despite making quite a bit of advertising about it. For instance they advertise special Premiere service in Switzerland. You can get a car pickup from home at ridiculous early times, so that's useless. But then other than the very impractical personal escort you get the same thing as everybody else, i.e. The (not very impressive) lounge with its poor catering, etc. Lufthansa and Swiss do a bit better. Personal escorts at longhaul outstations, and a dedicated F section in their outstation lounges with better food and sometimes personal escort to the departure gate. The only two outstation lounge spaces I can think of that replicate the design and concept of those at the airlines' home hubs are the CCR and the Lufthansa FCL in New York.

San Gottardo

When I flew Vueling at least the planes were clean.

orbitmic

Very true: while I think that AF goes "one beyond" the rest in terms of security/immigration escort of outstations, lounge wise, they are arguably worse than the rest because frankly, the Skyteam lounge network is generally subpar. From that point of view, funnily enough, BA's weaknesses are partly inadvertently counterbalanced by the fact that OW partners such as CX and QF tend to have excellent lounges! For *A, SQ or NZ lounges also often tend to be quite nice (although UA is possibly the worst of all three US majors lounges wise!) So you're right, it's another case where for AF, the personal service is high but the lounge infrastructure often weak.

BTW, didn't know AF offered travel to airport service from Switzerland. Shame if they don't do it well as you are pointing out. I've used the EY equivalent in a number of countries and it was very good, although there too I had to "negotiate" much later pick up times than they insisted on.

lloydah

My experience of AF at LHR has never been beaten by any other airline I've flown from there. The personal touches exceed expectations. I wonder why then, that in the US the escort could only get us to the back of the security line and, although he waited with us had no power to make headway at all. Is that simply US rules so suck it up?

And transferring from the euro connection to the terminal at FRA on LH, I would have thought it quite possible to drive you to the FCT or at least give you the choice. Walking the streets is OK in the summer.....

San Gottardo

Hmmm, second person on this thread who is unhappy about connecting from the A gates to the FCT.

The thing is: why would anyone go to the FCT if you are *connecting*? It means walking towards the exit end of the A pier - where you happen to have a First Class Lounge which is identical to the FCT in design, catering, services, etc - then one floor down, out of the airport, over a parking lot, into the FCT, one floor up, and then into the lounge. By the time you have done that walk you would have finished your first Eggs Benedict or Gin Tonic in the First Class Lounge which is right in the concourse where you arrived. There is a situation where it does make sense to walk outside, it is when you arrive early in the morning at the C concourse. From there, the walk is just as long to the other FCLs as to the FCT, with the difference that there is zero wait at security in the FCT. And by the way, I do think that LH should come up with something to make transfers from the (few) C gates arrivals more comfortable and quicker.

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On another topic, one element of ground service we haven't touched upon is showers. I am writing this from the QR First Lounge in DOH. Just arrived and wanted to take a shower before flying on to my final destination in the GCC, where I won't have time to do it before running to my meetings.

Problem is: loooong wait. And guess why: they told me they only have *one* shower!! This is the worst joke I've heard in a long time. The entire lounge is gigantically big, and they only have one shower?? I find it hard to believe, and I actually seem to remember that there were several cabins, but this is what they just told me. One shower. Maybe it means "the others don't work and we don't know how to fix them", but still, even having only one shower available in the First Class Lounge of a (wannabe) major transit hub is unacceptable.

lloydah

[QUOTE=San Gottardo;27351849]Hmmm, second person on this thread who is unhappy about connecting from the A gates to the FCT.

The thing is: why would anyone go to the FCT if you are *connecting*? It means walking towards the exit end of the A pier - where you happen to have a First Class Lounge which is identical to the FCT in design, catering, services, etc - then one floor down, out of the airport, over a parking lot, into the FCT, one floor up, and then into the lounge. By the time you have done that walk you would have finished your first Eggs Benedict or Gin Tonic in the First Class Lounge which is right in the concourse where you arrived. There is a situation where it does make sense to walk outside, it is when you arrive early in the morning at the C concourse. From there, the walk is just as long to the other FCLs as to the FCT, with the difference that there is zero wait at security in the FCT. And by the way, I do think that LH should come up with something to make transfers from the (few) C gates arrivals more comfortable and quicker.

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That's true but I wanted the car to the plane which you don't always get if you're in the FCL. During nice weather it's not at all a problem to have a bit of fresh air and walk but getting through the terminal itself is a bit of a nightmare. It just seems a bit odd that after all the care taken generally with F in LH that this is a bit of a missed trick.

Enthilza

Amazingly detailed review SFO777, thanks for sharing it.

PS: You guys are killing me and what I used to consider an excessive or extravagant spending is now creeping higher and higher in my to-do list for 2017.

orbitmic

Totally true, and bizarrely, QR has problems with showers across lounges (almost always wait in J lounge too!) plus at least half of their showers only have boiling hot water!

BA showers are plentiful but horrible. LH ones are "functional" but not great. On that front, my favourites are the Pier F at HKG followed by AF P and QF F at SYD.

Indeed, as I said, I did not go to the FCT the second time round, but that's the thing: whilst I agree it makes sense not to, the transit experience of the rational transit pax at FRA is then meeeeh at best: walk, good but nowhere near great F lounges, then walk again. It's marginally better than BA but not that much!

bennos

My understanding is that it is generally up to the airports and airlines to agree as to how the security lines are arranged, up until the document checker (at which point TSA governs how things operate until you are through security).

Conjecture, but it may simply be that since AF doesn't operate from any dedicated terminals in the US (not even dedicated SkyTeam terminals I think), other airlines may not be willing to agree to "cut the line" privileges for AF P passengers.

laf747

I apologize in advance for asking a question I previously asked but after reading these posts I am somewhat confused. I am arriving into Terminal 2E from JFK and am traveling FC. I then have a short connection time for my flight to GOA which leaves out of Terminal 2G. My question is whether I will have any escort off my flight from JFK and will I still have to take the bus to 2G or will I be driven there?