daveinsf

I just did a flight on the A380 on Aug. 3 from SFO to CDG and although the strike was over the plane was still very understaffed because the striking flight attendants had not come in on the inbound flight. We had 14 instead of the normal 21 and the service suffered mightily. There were no menus so no descriptions available of the food or wine. Just "Would you like beef, fish or vegetarian?" The dessert was served with the appetizer and no after-dinner drinks were offered. We saw little of the staff since they were so busy trying to feed all the 500-plus on the plane. We'd purchased business class and although I knew the seats were going to be poorer than BA or AA, which I most frequenlty use (slanted instead of 180 degrees and many of the seats don't have aisle access), I had hoped the meals and service would be as good or possibly better since the French are known for their food. I'd say overall the Air France experience on this flight was the poorest Business Class flight to Europe I've taken (out of probably 20).

MSPeconomist

I'm surprised that it would be legal to fly with only two-thirds of the usual number of FAs on a full aircraft. While many carriers "overstaff" their flights with more FAs than the minimum number required for safety by the regulatory authorities, it would be surprising if AF regularly overstaffs to this extent.

irishguy28

Given the stranglehold the French unions have on AF, it would be strange if AF didn't overstaff to this extent.

orbitmic

"It's complicated" I believe that the legal minimum on a route between the US and EU is one cabin crew per 50 pax, however, there are "rigidities" due to overstaffing in P and J (for instance, P has 2 crew members for 9 pax) as well as the division of Y across the two decks, so I believe that 21 is indeed AF's norm on an A388 (for 516 pax) which is well above the legal minimum. I don't think it's a Unions issue either as I believe that QF has the same numbers and EK even more.

To the OP, strikes suck, but then there is also a clear choice that AF had to make here: either fly you with fewer staff than usual at the risk of lowering service standards, or else delay your flight by 24 hours for more crew to have time to arrive. Do you really think that you would have preferred the latter?

As someone who typically chooses BA over AF, I can confirm to you that in long haul J, the AF soft product is clearly better than both BA's and AA's. Food is better (on both meals), service quality is a notch above, bar is better. Only wine is paradoxically better on BA, and of course the seat when you have the old configuration as on the A380 (and when you avoid old configuration planes on AA).

It is clear why this was not the case on your particular flight and I guess it is up to you to decide whether you are happy to disregard this as an exception and try it again or decide that that was not good enough for you and go back to OW alternatives, but regardless, of what you decide, this was an unusual experience that you had.

mot29

Curious -- wouldn't the inbound A380 have flown with the full complement of FAs and they would have just spent extra days at SFO before returning?

Goldorak

No, certainly not. This crew arrived understaffed during the strike and so returned understaffed too, but still above the legal minimum.


I am a bit surprised that you didn't have the regular service in J, even in those conditions. I flew BOS-CDG in J last week during the strike and we had a lower number of PNC as well, but the service was exactly the same as usual (despite an announcement saying that the usual standards of services would not be met on our flight because of the strike and the reduced number of PNC). Only noticeable difference was that we had only one FA serving the entire J cabin, instead of one per aisle, so the service was a bit longer.
I am guessing in OP's case that Y was very full and so they had to downgrade J a bit.
To OP : this is absolutely not the AF standard that you had and so, as a J pax, you are certainly entitled to compensation if you wish to file a claim with them.

daveinsf

Seems to me another choice would have been for AF to let passengers know ahead of time that service would be reduced and offer a refund or penalty-free change so passengers could choose whether to fly another airline (which I probably would have). They must have known when the flight flew with reduced crew from Paris that the return was also going to be problematic.

orbitmic

I think you might be underestimating the logistical nightmare that comes with managing a strike and its aftermath, or alternatively overestimating the labour available to take care of it. Your flight was only a drop of water in an ocean of reorganisation and with limited staff available to handle it, the sole goal would be to try and fly the most passengers possible. You have to prioritise and contacting passengers in advance to tell them they might have reduced service is frankly not a priority when you need to help the people whose flights would still be cancelled as a result of staff repositioning.

I have no doubt that AF would have happily let you switch to another of their flights for free if you wanted but there is no way that you would get a full refund on the grounds of lowered service standards with them or anyone else. Airlines stick to the terms of the contract under the CoC and to the regulatory obligations that they have and in effect, if they wanted to play hard ball you would be entitled to absolutely nothing formally. Instead, as Goldorak mentions, if you write to them to describe your onboard experience and disappointment, I am sure that they will send you something (miles or vouchers) as a gesture of goodwill, but it will be just that, a customer recovery goodwill gesture which may or may not feel better.

This is not AF-specific: I can't think of a single airline that would offer a full refund when their regulatory and contractual obligation to a customer is 0, they will try to accommodate or repair within reason but full refund would not qualify.

As I said earlier, I fully accept that impressions matter and airlines know that they will lose some customers as a result of the strike and this is perfectly legitimate that customers who have been victims of it will say "strike? Not my problem, I am flying someone else next time" so won't be surprised or shocked if you do, and that is ultimately a decision that only you can take.

PS: footnote on the food: food ex-US is generally poor on al European airlines, and SFO is one of the worst outstations for it. If your flight from Europe is also with CDG, I am convinced that you will find the food much better.

Ditto

What they could/should have done is allow pax to change their flight for free not only during the dates of the strike, but also for flights in the days after the strike ends.

I was flying a long-haul flight on Aug 4th, and service in J was not at usual, there was an announcement at the beginning of the flight saying the cabin crew is short staffed by 3 (not sure how many there normally are on a 772) and so service was not as great as it normally is, but even so it was still good.

Grouchy

Most carriers overstaff. IIRC EASA SIB still allows airlines to have the choice between applying ORO 100 or following the EASA SIB’s recomendation.

Want to experience the legal limit experience, fly one of TAP's 330 or 340. They operate them with only 6 cabin crew

daveinsf

Thought I'd update that on my return flight things started out much better. Had a full crew of flight attendants with service and food much improved. Things went downhill for the second meal service though when they ran out of two of the three choices leaving only the vegetarian. I'm sure some will think this is to be expected but my feeling is with the price of business class they can afford to have enough spare meals to make sure this doesn't happen.

Ditto

That happened to me as well and was very surprising, I was flying on one of the configurations with only 2 rows in J, 6 pax were served before me, and with 7 more to go they only had the fish option left...

daveinsf

By the way, I e-mailed a complaint to Air France on August 5th and so far have not heard a word back from them so I am also unimpressed with their customer service department.

orbitmic

I think less than two weeks is not unusual amongst European airlines, especially after a strike which is bound to have attracted multiple complaints. For instance, the standard CS response timing for BA is "within 28 days". I know it feels long when you are on the receiving end nonetheless and hope that they will mostly provide you with a useful answer rather than cut and paste as seems to increasingly be the annoying norm.