Antoine Nguyen

I booked Business Class on KLM/AF through expedia.ca

YYZ-AMS-JNB

CPT-JNB-CDG

CDG-YYZ

All legs/flights were booked in Business and my itineraries (expedia itinerary, KLM itinerary, AF itinerary) reflected that

I received Business service on all flights except for CPT-JNB

We had arrived early to the airport (CPT) to use the pre-flight lounge and were also expecting priority on our checked bags, Business seating and onboard complimentary snacks/drinks. This did not pan out. AF6647, our CPT-JNB flight, we learned at the airport, was on a low-cost carrier and that flight did not offer Business

At CPT, I called the AF Agent at JNB. He said that there was nothing he could do - he could not even mitigate some of the issues. eg., get us lounge access, re-book our flights .. nothing. When I asked to speak to a supervisor/manager, he hung up on me

When I returned to Canada, I raised the issue with AF again. They responded with a terribly formatted and inaccurate letter. They acknowledged that I had booked Business and that the flight did not offer Business service. They did not see this as a downgrade and I was not owed any further explanation or compensation

In the letter they noted that COMAIR, the airline I was referred to, offered no Business service for flights between CPT and JNB. That is incorrect, they do offer Business service - just not on the flight I was put on

The AF letter is at this twitter link:

https://twitter.com/antoine3nguyen/s...39390366887938

Why did all my itineraries read 'Business' for that flight if there was no Business service?

I feel flight AF6647 CPT-JNB was misrepresented to me as a Business product

As a sidenote, we're a middle-class couple that have mostly flown economy. We save money, watch for fare sales, and save points. We really appreciate Business Class service when we can get it

AirPassRightsCA

Air France's response reads as follows, but makes no sense:

There can be too cases:

• Comair misrepresented to Air France that it would have Business class on that flight, that is, Comair defrauded Air France and the passenger.
• Air France knew that Comair had no Business class on that flight, and knowingly sold a ticket for a non-existent class, that is, Air France defrauded the passenger.

In either case, this was a case of downgrade, and the passenger should be compensated accordingly. Since the passenger's contract was with Air France, it is them who have to compensate the passenger. Later, Air France and Comair cat sort it out among themselves who was responsible for all this.

Dieuwer

Forget arguing with Air France. I suggest the OP file a EU claim.

sfvoyage

I almost had the same issue, with a booking on expedia.com for yvr-cdg-jnb-cpt and return. For the domestic jnb-cpt-jnb segments, I was not familiar with comair and did some research, including seeking advice on this board.

What I found out was that Comair is a low cost carrier and the 2 segments did in fact have only Y service, although IIRC the confirmation may have shown business class. So, I cancelled my booking and rebooked again on expedia, selecting SA J for the jnb-cpt-jnb segments (but retaining all the other AF long haul segments). The fare increased, but it was worth having real J service on the entire itinerary.

I don't believe you were downgraded; your ticket included AF J for the long haul segments and Comair Y for the domestic segments, as would have been my case, had I not researched further and subsequently cancelled and rebooked - at a higher cost - proactively.

mfkne

EU 261 does not apply here since the flight concerned was neither operated by an EU carrier nor did it depart within the EU.

NickB

Look back at the booking class for the CPT-JNB segment on the original ticket: was that segment booked in business or economy? If the latter, there is no downgrade. If the former, there is. Even if there is a downgrade, what the OP is likely to get in terms of compensation is minimal given that it is a tiny proportion of the overall itinerary.

"Comair" is not a low-cost airline. Comair is an operator that sells flights under one of two brands: as a two-class full service airline under the BA brand and as a one-class low-cost carrier under the Kulula brand. There is no overlap between the two brands. it is a bit like Air France vs Transavia, if you like. The BA-branded flights and Kulula-branded flights are not the same flights. You cannot buy a "Comair" flight. You will either buy a seat on a Kulula flight (under the MN code) or on a British Airways flight (under the BA code).

If, as I suspect, the OP's was originally scheduled to fly on a Kulula flight, then he would have been booked from the start in economy since Kulula does not offer business class. If expedia.ca did not make clear that this segment was in economy class, then this is a matter for the OP to take up with expedia.ca.

AJCNL

Indeed surely if you book through a (online) travel agent, then your contract is with them, and any complaints should be direct to that agency. I often look to see what these online agencies are offering but have never booked through one as they generally seem rather vague as to exactly what one is buying.

Concerto

I've often had an award with a short flight in a single class cabin tacked on at one end. Once, it was a domestic Canadian on the one class Air Canada Jazz, another a domestic American flight on US Airways operated by Piedmont Airways. Both were pretty basic one hour flights, but as long as I get the baggage allowance and everything is on time I don't worry too much about it for such a short flight.

NickB

Actually, I did check and the OP is right that, if you buy the flight under AF code (eg: AF6647 rather than MN104), it will show as "business" even though it is a Kulula flight and, therefore, without business class. This is true not just on expedia. ca but on AF.com as well.

This is plainly misleading and unacceptable and the OP has a legitimate complaint. If AF does not want to call it a "downgrade", it is mis-selling or failure to supply what was provided for in the contract: the OP had a ticket for business class service on this flight and was only offered Y service.

Antoine Nguyen

NickB:
That is my point. Surely, airlines cannot do this. That leg of the flight should have read 'Economy' if that was the service I was receiving

Andy49

Strangely enough Air France and some people here think its acceptable to do this. They moved me and my family from an Air France business class flight to a budget airline (Flybe) but they still call it business class.

Antoine Nguyen

Andy49. Was there a resolution to your issue?

I'm Canadian and bought this with a Cdn Credit Card on a Cdn website in Canada. I feel Canadian consumer protection rules should apply. Classifying a flight as 'Business' when it does not offer Business service is mis-representing to and mis-leading the consumer

NickB

You are right. They should not do it. It is a consequence of how some airlines define their fare conditions. But there are other ways to do it that do not lead to misleading customers like here.

I would agree with the AF agent that it is not a downgrade as such. I would look at it as either a mis-selling (they misdescribed what you bought) or a breach of contract (they promised something and delivered something else). So while AF is clearly at fault and you have a legitimate complaint, the difficulty is: how do you evaluate compensation, given that the (notional) difference in price between the product you bought and the product you were delivered is negligible?
Did you incur some expenses either at CPT or in flight between CPT and JNB that you would not have incurred had you genuinely been in business class? If so, it woud seem reasonable to me to claim at least reimbursement of these.
Apart from that, realistically, I suspect that it would be easier to get customer relations to offer compensation in miles (if you are an FB member) or a voucher valid against the purchase of a future flight on AFKL

Concerto

Yes, it is good to try and help the OP sort this out and stand up for what is right with this misinformation. In my case, I was clearly informed that this segment would be in economy, not business, class. So there is no comparison to the OP's case. With Flybe, they have a sort of premium economy section, but it's certainly not at all business class cabin.

NickB

Indeed. That seems to me rather different to the situation of the OP. They have a premium section and you also get lounge access. I have had a similar experience with a SK connector on a CX ticket. The SK ARN-CDG segment is described on the ticket sold by CX as "business". However, SK no longer have business class intra-Europe and, instead, have "Economy Plus". I am not overly bothered by that and do not think that this is significantly misleading. The dividing line between an intra-European "premium economy" offering and a business class one can, at the borderline, be close to semantic (the only significant difference, imo, is the non-blocking of the middle seat).

In the OP's case, however, it seems to me more problematic. He seems to have had a plain vanilla basic Y experience for a flight supposed to be booked in "business". That is much more objectionable, imo.