af fp

At least a few busy air routes will be replaced with an Hyperloop service. I wonder where the Hyperloop station will be for France. Under the Invalides aérogare ?

albireo

Was not this the point of the RER B Nord + project ? 500M€ have been spent to upgrade the line, the stations, and renovate the trains. However, the results have been a mixed bag.

Trains to CDG now are more frequent at peak times (up to 10 per hour) but then they are all omnibus, which increases the travel time. Renovation of the cars took so long (10 years since the presentation of the prototype and the work is not yet finished!) that by the time the whole fleet is refurbished, it will be necessary to invest again to replace those trains before they reach end of life (they will turn 40 in 2019).

Still, the RER B is convenient as, unlike CDG Express, it serves many points throughout Paris without the need for a train change. Ironically, when it was put into service in 1976 the original travel time to Gare du Nord (22mn) was not that much longer than what CDG Express now promises for 2025 to arrive at a terminus station : 20mn, up from 15mn in the early genesis of the project.

So, to me CDG Express has all the characteristics of a white elephant. I doubt it will ever be profitable, and since the government plans to soon tax *all* CDG pax to help pay for the construction cost, I believe that the billions of public money would be much better spent on RER B so that it can at least return to its original performance.

There has been much underinvestment into Paris-area public transportation for several decades up until a few years ago, and it is a hard uphill battle to restore decent levels of service.

jsfr

Surprisingly, the project did not revolve around the airport but was rather destined at the millions of people who live in Northern Paris.

Now as they have increased the frequency of trains, they can't have non-stop trains as there is only one track in each direction, so the "fast" trains would have no way to overtake the omnibus trains, qfd...

Gare de l'est is a dumb destination, but what choice is there? Double the tracks to Gare du Nord? That would involve repossessing houses, displacing population/commercial centres, etc. All for the rich travellers and foreignors in a very left wing district. Not going to happen.

What they might be able to do (which should have been done a long time ago, with the creation of the RER E Magenta station) is some significant infrastructure work to create a good underground connection between Gare de l'Est and Gare du Nord/Magenta, it is only about 300 metres and that would help.

albireo

The dual nature of the RER B line (suburban commuter / airport feeder) is indeed adding complexities and uneasy trade-offs to any upgrade plan. I personnally think it was a wise choice to design the overhaul so that it maximized the number of people who would benefit from it (1.2 million daily travellers if I recall well -- this is the busiest train line in the world). Because of the sheer number of users, the impact of RER B delays and cancellations is huge for the local economy. It is just disappointing that 500M€ were not enough to lift up the service quality to satisfying levels, even by commuter's standards (which are admittedly easier to meet than business traveller's expectations).

Some radical solutions are known (doubling the tunnel between Châtelet and Gare du Nord, doubling the lines on the CDG directions) but cost in the billions and have not been budgeted yet. Even if they were, it will take at least 10-15 years (and a lot of traffic disruption due to construction) before they become operational. If there is one more billion to be spent now on RER B, I think it is probably better to use it for the complete renewal of the fleet. More modern trains would have better acceleration capabilities (thus cutting the time between two stations), better access (wide doors) and capacity (double deckers ?), and more importantly, would not break down as often. They could even have dedicated cars for CDG travellers, with larger luggage racks, flight departure information etc.

Well, currently at peak times trains run (in theory) every 3mn from Gare du Nord, and every 6mn from Aulnay on the CDG branch (served by every other train). A direct train every 12mn between Aulnay and CDG with a travel time shortened by 4mn would still arrive (just) after the preceding omnibus.

NickB

That is the crucial problem, is it not: congestion and capacity constraints on lines that are meant to serve airport services, commuter services and long distance services. Similar to the Gatwick Express issue in the LON area.
I can certainly see the point, from a planner's perspective, of making the journey from the airport less comfortable/longer rather than leaving large numbers of commuters stranded and creating safety hazards in the process.
Now, one can make all sorts of points as to why we end up in this position and should not have had their been better planning, more investment, etc... but, if we are where we are, ...
That said, the argument holds for peak hours but not so much for the rest of the day.

orbitmic

Completely agree, it is absolutely. And at the risk of sounding obvious, commuters represent far more voters than CDG users. At the same time, business is keen to have better transport links to the main French airport and the authorities have devised the current "cote mal taillee" to try and solve an impossible equation. As you say, outside of peak time, I would hope for more fast trains (in fact, I think there used to be more) but French negotiations have that strange capacity to lead to suboptimal compromises sometimes and it is quite possible that the current off peak schedule does not work quite ideally for anyone involved.

stimpy

Well Well, the Macron law was actually adopted!

L’article 8 autorise le gouvernement à prendre par ordonnance, dans un délai d’un an à compter de la promulgation de la loi, toute mesure relevant du domaine de la loi permettant la réalisation d’une infrastructure ferroviaire entre Paris et l’aéroport Paris-Charles-de-Gaulle. Ce projet, baptisé CDGexpress, doit être confié directement à une entité dédiée, filiale de l’établissement public SNCF Réseau et d’Aéroports de Paris. Le début des travaux est prévu pour 2017 avec un objectif de mise en route à l’horizon 2023.

So 2017 we'll see work begin on the CDG Express it seems. And maybe service begins in 2023, but I wouldn't bet on it.

Zembla

I think the whole Olympics 2024 bidding was the key to get this through.

Goldorak

Some news here (originally posted in the France forum of FT by poster TWA884):
http://www.thelocal.fr/20161221/expr...ts-green-light

Goldorak

EU has validated today some public French state fundings (1.3 billions €) to SNCF Réseau and ADP for CDG Express train line.
http://www.lemonde.fr/entreprises/ar...5_1656994.html

bodory

This morning I wished CDG Express was here and worked. It took my kids and I three hours (08-10) to go from 2E to Palais Royal by taxi because of a broken truck on A1 near Le Bourget.

PROACTIVE

A train link between CDG and Paris already exist. It is called RER B. The station is located between terminal 2E and 2F.
You could make the journey to Gare du Nord then take a taxi from there.

In all Paris terminals they are tv screen showing the road traffic situation around Paris.
Next time have a look to one of those before taking a taxi.

bubufr

This is incorrect. Both taxis and Uber now have a flat fee between CDG and Paris. For taxis, 50€ to the right bank and 55€ to the left bank. UberX is 5€ cheaper.

PROACTIVE

Hello,

sorry you are absolutely right. Will delete teh part taht is not applicable in my previous post.

bodory

[Sarcasm=on]

Hello

Seriously? Is that because it is a real train they might rename it as such soon?

A little birdie working on artificial "intelligence" projects at ADP even told me these screens are now able to predict accidents on the A1. But let's keep it a secret, it is not official yet

[/Sarcasm]

I worked in the taxi and my kids slept. No big deal for us, unlike our driver who was indeed on a flat fare.