orbitmic

Sorry but how do you know that? The size of aircrafts is there to reflect expected loads not to fly empty seats. Unless you have access to the airlines' load data on those flights you simply have no way whatsoever to know whether they could have (easily or not) accommodated those remaining passengers, nor do you have any way to know how many passengers were indeed accommodated by AF on all those flights. I have said it before and I'll say it again - the blogger speaks of 35 people remaining at the end, this simply means that the vast majority got flown earlier than they were.

As for "where there is will there is a way", that might be true in Hollywood movies but not in real life. In that particular case, the most badly affected passengers were flown one day after their expected departure. Those of us who fly a lot can testify that this is not a 'horrible' result by any stretch of the imagination, as I have seen cases when ripple effects lasted several days on and some people would only have been able to get one 2, 3, 4 days after their original flying date. Indeed, we read about those on FT frequently.

Nobody here is saying that the situation those passengers experienced is pleasant, far from it, it is extremely unpleasant when it happens. Several of us are however suggesting that this is not unusual and that the notion that AF 'could have done better' needs evidence if it is going to be accepted because at this stage, based on the information received, we certainly do not know that.

irishguy28

Sadly, this is not true.

I already showed several posts ago that routing via Abu Dhabi on Etihad would, at most, have cut the delay from 24 hours to 21 hours. And routing via points in Asia would not have got the passengers there any earlier than waiting for the next Air France flight, and in many cases could have delayed them even further due to tight connections.

Looking at Emirates' 2 flights today for CDG-DXB, the 1425 flight apparently is quite full. Across all economy fares, only 2 seats are shown as available for sale in each. This would usually be interpreted as a fairly full flight - unlikely that 40 seats would be available here:

Y2 E2 R2 W2 M2 B2 U2 K2 H0 Q2 L2 T2 V2 X2

For the later Emirates flight departing at 2115, it is even more full.

Y1 E1 R0 W0 M0 B0 U0 K0 H0 Q0 L0 T0 V0 X0

Emirates are good at filling up their flights and keeping the load factor high - you certainly cannot assume that, with just hours to go before any Emirates departure, that there are 40 spaces available. (For all we know, AF may indeed have rebooked some of the other 160-odd passengers that are not the subject of the blog onto Emirates flights).


In fact, I have just gone to the Emirates website and attempted to book 1 economy one-way ticket on CDG-DXB today.

Here are the results - there are NO ECONOMY SEATS AVAILABLE on the evening flight.



Bear in mind that, by the time the CDG-BOM flight was finally cancelled, it was likely too late to attempt to put passengers on Emirates' afternoon flight - it may have already departed. And there certainly is no guarantee that any of the 40-odd pax could have been accommodated on the evening Emirates departure.

From playing around further with the Emirates booking tool, they can sell 7 seats on the afternoon departure in economy; asking for 8 causes it to crash. So there are only 7 economy Emirates seats available to buy from Paris-Dubai today.

DELLAS

Sadly its part of a wider immigration issue going on in France at the moment. If you know anything about France and politics you will already know this ! My Father has been living in France for the last 10 years so I do have some first hand knowledge of this. Also if you think that all Schengen countries sing off the same hymn sheet then I beg to differ. That comes from people I personally know working in the COE.


Controversial immigration court opens at Paris airport

http://www.france24.com/en/20131015-...lawyers-rights

RigpigMalta

As various posters have commented on, cheap fare and a pot luck itinerary if an IRROP occurred. The guy should just grow a pair and get over it. Airlines are not charities but a business and they/he chose that cheap itinerary over a direct flight option, it is not AF's fault and Schengen rules are strict for a reason, the border agencies cannot pick and choose who to let in.

It happens and will happen again ALL OVER THE WORLD where visa's are required to exit terminals and enter a country.

AF accomodated the pax who had valid schengens, enough said.

irishguy28

OK, I admit now that I was wrong.

I've just read a report of Lufthansa (!!! YES - Lufthansa!!) rebooking pax onto EK First Class...

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/21930653-post11.html

ranskis

I had an LH F flight FRA SIN cancelled due to a strike. Rebooked on SQ F flying with a few minutes difference, and given access to the LH F terminal as originally booked. Just the car to the SQ plane could not be given as they don't have access to other airlines' jetway (or something like that).

irishguy28

LH and SQ are in the same alliance! (Even if LH is falling out with some of its alliance partners - see TK).

However, LH has never stopped complaining about Emirates (and the other Gulf airlines) - so it's just surprising for me to see them rebook passengers on to Emirates.

LH must also realise that they'll never got those F passengers back!!!

brunos

I am not sure why you say that.

First, LH F is superb, ground and inflight.
Second, I would be very happy with LH that went out of its way to rebook me during an IRROPS, even on a UA award. That is the sign of a great airline.
Third, I would have no hesitation to take LH nonstop compared to the one stop (actually two stops in OP case) EK flights.

orbitmic

I fully agree with brunos. While making a passenger discover a competitor's excellent F product may indeed encourage them to use it again, not doing so and wasting their time on a F ticket just for the sake of keeping them on your own metal while there is a faster alternative would definitely make them feel like not using the original airline booked at all. IMHO, IRROPS are 'service incidents' that have the potential to become the biggest 'outstanding service' stories in a passenger's life, so in the case of IRROPS, it is the way the airline 'saves the day' or not that counts double, not the base products.

irishguy28

In a perfect world, of course.

Except in that case, it took at least a day before the passenger was rebooked onto EK, and their luggage was left behind and is still apparently missing.

Hardly immaculate IRROPS recovery...