Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Miles&Points > Airlines and Mileage Programs > Air France, KLM, and Other Partners | Flying Blue > Air France Frequence Plus
Reload this Page >

End of ID/BP cross-check at boarding in France for AF flights, starting May 15th

End of ID/BP cross-check at boarding in France for AF flights, starting May 15th

Old May 21, 12, 12:41 am
  #61  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: Eurostar Carte Blanche, SBB-CFF-FFS GA-AG, SNCF Grand Voyageur LeClub
Posts: 6,331
Originally Posted by NickB View Post
I am glad to hear that it is now possible to transit at ZRH from a "clean" country to another one without having to go through security again. It has been a while since I flew via ZRH but it certainly was the case that you had to go through security again when arriving/departing from/to LHR. Last time I transited via ZRH to go to LON a little over a year ago I had to go through security again and this was coming from ... GVA which, unless I am mistaken, would normally be regarded as a "clean" departure airport at ZRH.

That was also true in Milan (both airports). Ditto for AMS. I seem to recall it being the same as VIE but it has been some time since I flew via there so maybe my memory is failing me. To be honest, my recollection is that the vast majority of European airports only allow to connect without clearing security again for flights coming from Schengen rather than for flights from a clean country simply because the way they have configured departures and arrivals do not allow for distinct flows from non-Schengen clean countries with some exceptions, such as MUC.

Certainly my expectation as someone who regularly originate in LON is that I will be expected to clear security again at the connection point and I am pleasantly surprised when this does not happen.
In ZRH this is the case since the opening of Dock B which has dual use (Schengen and non-Schengen) gates which can be set up in a way to channel transfer pax through security or not.

There is however one inconsistency: flights arriving at Dock E which is most of the longhaul flights and also carriers like BA. Most of the traffic there is from non-clean countries, but also some clean ones like USA and UK. Thus: if you fly from London on Swiss you use Dock B and you won't have to go through security again as a transfer pax. If you land on BA and are connecting you will have to go through security. Same for flights from US: some are arriving in Dock B (no security), some in Dock E (security).
San Gottardo is offline  
Old May 21, 12, 5:03 am
  #62  
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: SXB
Programs: Flying Beurk Silver, BA Gold, BD Gold rememberer, A-club Platinum, Hilton Gold
Posts: 2,472
Originally Posted by San Gottardo View Post
Why do I have to show a paper to be greeted?? I go in to shops, restaurants, meetings, whatever, and people can be warm and welcoming.
I'm with you on the BP check when entering the plane. Interestingly enough, there is a mention of it on the BA board. Apparently, they do it as well, and it irks half the people, while the other half is totally in favour of it.

And as for recognizing the status pax: in >10 years of Platinum I have been greeted exactly zero times by my name,
Actually, I find that a good thing. "Bienvenue à bord Monsieur" is much better and classier than "Bienvenue à bord, Monsieur Richelieu". I fail to feel recognized when the person in front of them has just read my name on a piece of paper (3 years olds can do that, they learn to read the name of their comrades in school on little bits of paper, they should be told they're having their first vocational training lesson in case they decide to work in the travel & hospitality industry...)

I've been called by my name without being irked once in the last 10 years... By a flight attendant that was working on the morning flight I took twice a week, for a long time. At the 6th or 7th time, when I saw him on another route, he greeted me genuinely, asking if I was on holiday today. It was not forced, it was courteous, it was good service. End result: happy customer. If a FA mechanically read my name to say hello, end result: nothing (at worst, a loss of time while they do the reading, or they can butcher the name).

Let's not get absurd and elevate AF's control-nonsense which exists for falsely-understood security pretexts into a high level of customer service.
According to BA's employees on the BA board, they are required to do that by government rules, however silly. I don't know if it's the same for AF because they stopped to do that at some point...

and greet me by name.
I didn't want to offend anyone who is pleased to be greeted by name, of course! Just to say it's not my cup of tea.

Not sure about AF longhaul these days.
I found that especially rude when boarding is done through the door dividing business class and economy, because it makes this check feel like they're checking if pax are not trying to sneak into a business seat...
Richelieu is offline  
Old May 21, 12, 7:34 am
  #63  
FlyerTalk Evangelist, Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Somewhere between 0 and 13,000 metres high
Programs: AF/KL Life Plat, BA GfL+CCR, Aclub Plat, Hilton Diam, Marriott Gold, blablablah, etc
Posts: 25,025
Originally Posted by Richelieu View Post
Actually, I find that a good thing. "Bienvenue à bord Monsieur" is much better and classier than "Bienvenue à bord, Monsieur Richelieu". I fail to feel recognized when the person in front of them has just read my name on a piece of paper (3 years olds can do that, they learn to read the name of their comrades in school on little bits of paper, they should be told they're having their first vocational training lesson in case they decide to work in the travel & hospitality industry...)
+1. And how about that, the 5 minutes saved by the CDC by not having to look at passengers BP's (i.e. not having to wait for passengers who have put it aside and don't remember which pocket/bag it is in to find it, not having to tell those who show the 'wrong' boarding card, e.g. that for their connecting flight that they need to find the right one, etc) can be perfectly well used by the said CDG to study the passengers' manifest which includes every minute detail about passengers' status, corporate contracts and more, and offer a particularly warm welcome when they reach the 'right' seat. Most of the worthwhile acknowledgements of status I have ever had on any airline was when I was at my seat and kindly greeted (whether by name or not I couldn't care less) or thanked or asked if I needed anything by pursers rather than when entering the plane whereby I believe that everyone should get a nice smile and hello regardless of their status.
orbitmic is offline  
Old May 21, 12, 10:57 am
  #64  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Four Seasons Contributor BadgeMandarin Oriental Contributor Badge
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Seat 1A, Juice pretty much everywhere, Mucci des Coins Exotiques
Posts: 31,610
Indeed on my AMS-LYS flight today there was no BP check. Shame that.

Originally Posted by San Gottardo View Post
What is that pretext of needing to bother me to free up one hand and get out my phone on which I have my BP, needing to unlock it, click on the application, make sure that the screen doesn't turn - and all of that for info which I had shown 4 meters earlier? It's bothering me more than anything else. I like a warm welcome, but not if I have to be inconvencied to obtain it.
Well if you have that much difficulty with your mobile BP, perhaps you should switch back to paper?

I don't have any problem with mobile BP's or paper and like I said above I like the greeting. It is a part of French culture that you have a respectful greeting with the people serving you. If you just rush past the staff to your seat without even looking at them, it just isn't quite civilized.
stimpy is offline  
Old May 21, 12, 11:12 am
  #65  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: London, UK and Southern France
Posts: 16,258
Originally Posted by San Gottardo View Post
There is however one inconsistency: flights arriving at Dock E which is most of the longhaul flights and also carriers like BA. Most of the traffic there is from non-clean countries, but also some clean ones like USA and UK.
That is pretty much the problem at most EU airports: flights from UK/IRL (or US) typically arrive in an area where most flights are from unclean origins with no dedicated channel and therefore are end up "polluted" by mixing with pax from those "unclean" origins.

I suspect, though, that the overwhelming majority of BA pax in ZRH will terminate there so the system will work for the majority of ex-LON pax as most ZRH-transiting traffic will typically be on LX.
NickB is offline  
Old May 21, 12, 11:15 am
  #66  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: London, UK and Southern France
Posts: 16,258
Originally Posted by stimpy View Post
I don't have any problem with mobile BP's or paper and like I said above I like the greeting. It is a part of French culture that you have a respectful greeting with the people serving you. If you just rush past the staff to your seat without even looking at them, it just isn't quite civilized.
But, as others have pointed out, they do not need to see your BP to greet you, anymore than the boulangère needs to see your passport or ID card before welcoming you when you go and buy your morning croissants.
NickB is offline  
Old May 21, 12, 12:19 pm
  #67  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Four Seasons Contributor BadgeMandarin Oriental Contributor Badge
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Seat 1A, Juice pretty much everywhere, Mucci des Coins Exotiques
Posts: 31,610
Originally Posted by NickB View Post
But, as others have pointed out, they do not need to see your BP to greet you, anymore than the boulangère needs to see your passport or ID card before welcoming you when you go and buy your morning croissants.
It's not to force the staff to greet the pax, it's to "force" the pax to greet the staff. One of many psychological benefits is that the pax are less likely to be belligerent if they exchange a kind greeting with the staff. That's sort of why the custom developed in most cultures centuries ago.
stimpy is offline  
Old May 21, 12, 12:22 pm
  #68  
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: SXB
Programs: Flying Beurk Silver, BA Gold, BD Gold rememberer, A-club Platinum, Hilton Gold
Posts: 2,472
And when greeted by the staff, or when they say goodbyes at the end of the flight, I can answer them without checking their ID

I assume they don't remember when deplaning who is who, and the goodbye session is as cordial as a welcome could be. Most people are civil and answer the goodbye (or so I assume, as I tend to be among the first to leave the plane... but I don't think rude people cluster at one end of the plane )
Richelieu is offline  
Old May 21, 12, 12:27 pm
  #69  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Four Seasons Contributor BadgeMandarin Oriental Contributor Badge
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Seat 1A, Juice pretty much everywhere, Mucci des Coins Exotiques
Posts: 31,610
I'll make on other psychological point. I think one of the reasons people don't like the BP at the door is that we resent being treated like children. Like we are too stupid to board the correct airplane or find the correct seat. I know I hate the way US airlines treat passengers like idiot children and it is one of the reasons I go out of my way to avoid flying US airlines. But I don't think we should extend that feeling to the way that airlines like AF and BA handle the greeting at the door. It doesn't have to be demeaning.
stimpy is offline  
Old May 21, 12, 4:07 pm
  #70  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: Eurostar Carte Blanche, SBB-CFF-FFS GA-AG, SNCF Grand Voyageur LeClub
Posts: 6,331
Originally Posted by orbitmic View Post
+1. And how about that, the 5 minutes saved by the CDC by not having to look at passengers BP's (i.e. not having to wait for passengers who have put it aside and don't remember which pocket/bag it is in to find it, not having to tell those who show the 'wrong' boarding card, e.g. that for their connecting flight that they need to find the right one, etc) can be perfectly well used by the said CDG to study the passengers' manifest which includes every minute detail about passengers' status, corporate contracts and more, and offer a particularly warm welcome when they reach the 'right' seat. Most of the worthwhile acknowledgements of status I have ever had on any airline was when I was at my seat and kindly greeted (whether by name or not I couldn't care less) or thanked or asked if I needed anything by pursers rather than when entering the plane whereby I believe that everyone should get a nice smile and hello regardless of their status.
Indeed the very best solution. BTW that is how that "other airline" does it. Very pleasant.
San Gottardo is offline  
Old May 21, 12, 4:12 pm
  #71  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: Eurostar Carte Blanche, SBB-CFF-FFS GA-AG, SNCF Grand Voyageur LeClub
Posts: 6,331
Originally Posted by stimpy View Post
Well if you have that much difficulty with your mobile BP, perhaps you should switch back to paper?
So why should I as the customer change the way I get my boarding pass only to please a nonsensical procedure by the airline? Not quite customer-centric, is it?

Originally Posted by stimpy View Post
I don't have any problem with mobile BP's or paper and like I said above I like the greeting. It is a part of French culture that you have a respectful greeting with the people serving you. If you just rush past the staff to your seat without even looking at them, it just isn't quite civilized.
You misunderstood my point. It was not about greeting or not (and if you knew me in person you'd know that usually it is me who greets them first). It was whether or not I need to show a paper to be greeted. I greet them - do they show me their ID? And how about saying aurevoir at the exit, do I have to show my BP again not to be ignored?

Whoever came up with that "we need to show a BP to be greeted in a civilized way" was looking for a lame pretext for a nonsensical process.

In my days of heavy AF flying I sometimes made it a sport to show BP from a different flight. It worked 90%. But still I was greeted. So much for security and for civilized greeting.
San Gottardo is offline  
Old May 21, 12, 4:27 pm
  #72  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: London, UK and Southern France
Posts: 16,258
Originally Posted by stimpy View Post
It's not to force the staff to greet the pax, it's to "force" the pax to greet the staff. One of many psychological benefits is that the pax are less likely to be belligerent if they exchange a kind greeting with the staff. That's sort of why the custom developed in most cultures centuries ago.
Ah, sorry. I get you now. But still, I would agree with Richelieu, SG and others: you do not need to show your BP to answer a good/morning/afternoon/evening/Welcome on board. And if you are not going to answer this, you probably still would not answer even if you had to show your BP anyway.
NickB is offline  
Old May 22, 12, 2:49 am
  #73  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: Platinum: KL Gold: A3 Silver: AZ, BA
Posts: 24,471
Originally Posted by NickB View Post
That is pretty much the problem at most EU airports: flights from UK/IRL (or US) typically arrive in an area where most flights are from unclean origins with no dedicated channel and therefore are end up "polluted" by mixing with pax from those "unclean" origins.
Given that DUB (partially) failed an airport security audit last week, arrivals from DUB are to be considered "unclean" when arriving for transfer at all other EU airports, and may now be required to clear security again at the point of transfer if it was previously possible to transfer without further checks. Business & Finance magazine notes that it could take up to two months to rectify the highlighted problems, the exact nature of which has not been revealed (though it seems that the suspension of aircraft searches is one).



Originally Posted by stimpy View Post
It's not to force the staff to greet the pax, it's to "force" the pax to greet the staff. One of many psychological benefits is that the pax are less likely to be belligerent if they exchange a kind greeting with the staff. That's sort of why the custom developed in most cultures centuries ago.
Interesting point...but I'm not entirely swayed by it. I always keep my boarding pass in my hand until I've taken my seat, but I'm used to the request to see a boarding pass at the door. Others, though, often seem to have managed to lose their boarding pass by the time they reach the door, and it can sometimes take them ages to find it. I've seen quite a few heated exchanges - "But I'm with them! I know my seat number! Why do you need to see it? This is ridiculous! They don't do this in the States!" - with the harried cabin crew.

A passenger who is, or is inclined to be, belligerent is not going to be "softened" by some light, friendly banter on boarding - when they often turn it into an argument!

That said, it often amazes me, when watching people board, when the stewards/stewardesses dotted around the cabin say a big friendly cheery "hello" to the passengers walking past, just how many of those passengers totally blank them, and give no sign of even registering the greeting, let alone returning it.
irishguy28 is offline  
Old May 22, 12, 2:58 am
  #74  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Four Seasons Contributor BadgeMandarin Oriental Contributor Badge
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Seat 1A, Juice pretty much everywhere, Mucci des Coins Exotiques
Posts: 31,610
Originally Posted by irishguy28 View Post
I've seen quite a few heated exchanges - "But I'm with them! I know my seat number! Why do you need to see it? This is ridiculous! They don't do this in the States!" - with the harried cabin crew.

A passenger who is, or is inclined to be, belligerent is not going to be "softened" by some light, friendly banter on boarding - when they often turn it into an argument!
Yes, America is the exception to most every rule.
stimpy is offline  
Old May 22, 12, 4:34 am
  #75  
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: SXB
Programs: Flying Beurk Silver, BA Gold, BD Gold rememberer, A-club Platinum, Hilton Gold
Posts: 2,472
Originally Posted by irishguy28 View Post
That said, it often amazes me, when watching people board, when the stewards/stewardesses dotted around the cabin say a big friendly cheery "hello" to the passengers walking past, just how many of those passengers totally blank them, and give no sign of even registering the greeting, let alone returning it.
Yes, there are rude people who think themselves to be too important to return greetings; I don't think they'll be less rude if they have to stop for the BP check...

A passenger who is, or is inclined to be, belligerent is not going to be "softened" by some light, friendly banter on boarding - when they often turn it into an argument!
Even if they are not belligerent, they could be miffed. When the crew suspects them to try to sneak on a plane where they don't belong, it's not welcoming, it's offensive, same as border checks when entering a country, except they might have a reason to check, while upon entering the plane, they are just double checking what was checked 50 meters ago. One could cut the crew some slack because they're just following orders, or construe that as a way to help passengers to their seats, but some can express unhappiness by this rude behaviour (especially if they're first seeing it, like an US pax).

Last edited by Richelieu; May 22, 12 at 4:40 am
Richelieu is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search Engine: