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End of ID/BP cross-check at boarding in France for AF flights, starting May 15th

End of ID/BP cross-check at boarding in France for AF flights, starting May 15th

Old May 19, 12, 4:26 pm
  #46  
 
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Originally Posted by irishguy28 View Post
As suggested above, if the criminal is "fleeing" to another Schengen jurisdiction (which isn't really fleeing at all) then they could just board a train, where ID is never required, or live up to their reputation by stealing a car and driving over a national border. If they do try to leave Schengen, well they will have to submit themselves to passport control (I believe this to be true at most exit ports, anyway).
Or show a fake ID. It's not like AF gate agents are able to identify a fake Agluchistani passport from a true, legitimate one. They only check that names match. ID checks by AF don't improve security in any way --- same as boarding a train. So are losing nothing (and gaining nothing) by not doing it, securitywise.

My lack of interest in this change is that I don't see why there was so much outcry on that, because for the pax the hassle is very limited. 10 minutes added for boarding 120 pax, in the worse case scenario were there is only one agent checking. My time is precious but not that precious, especially considering the many other sources of delays airlines impose on us. We'll see if after this change is implemented, AF effectively reduce boarding time and time limit to make it to the gate.

Granted it could help the airlines finances if they find a way to make good use of these 10 minutes of plane use per flight.

Last edited by Richelieu; May 19, 12 at 4:32 pm
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Old May 19, 12, 5:27 pm
  #47  
 
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Originally Posted by Richelieu View Post
Or show a fake ID. It's not like AF gate agents are able to identify a fake Agluchistani passport from a true, legitimate one. They only check that names match. ID checks by AF don't improve security in any way --- same as boarding a train. So are losing nothing (and gaining nothing) by not doing it, securitywise.
+1
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Old May 20, 12, 3:13 am
  #48  
 
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Just flew UX (AF code share on UX metal) from CDG to VLC and AGP to CDG.

ID checks were performed at the gate for both flights.

Last edited by carnarvon; May 20, 12 at 11:29 am
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Old May 20, 12, 6:59 am
  #49  
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Am I assuming correctly that the hostesses will continue to check our BP's at the door of the airplane? That part I like as a formal welcoming to the flight.
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Old May 20, 12, 8:22 am
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Originally Posted by Richelieu View Post
10 minutes added for boarding 120 pax, in the worse case scenario
10 minutes out of 35 minutes rotation time (medium haul flight) is a lot!
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Old May 20, 12, 9:18 am
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Originally Posted by nicolas75 View Post
10 minutes out of 35 minutes rotation time (medium haul flight) is a lot!
It doesn't matter to most of thepassengers, who either are connecting and are more concerned about the last call time than by the boarding time window, or are infrequent flyers who are at the airport litterally hours before the flight, or are checking luggage and thus need to be present earlier...

Plus, the delay incurred by checking ID might not be a 100% loss. Domestic flight by Lufthansa boards 30 minutes before departure (from an old BP I had, I am not sure it's the current time). Domestic flight by Air France boards 30 minutes before departure. Despite gaining time by not checking ID, Lufthansa still need a 30 minutes window to between the start of the boarding process and take-off.

Last edited by Richelieu; May 20, 12 at 9:56 am
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Old May 20, 12, 11:29 am
  #52  
 
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Originally Posted by stimpy View Post
Am I assuming correctly that the hostesses will continue to check our BP's at the door of the airplane? That part I like as a formal welcoming to the flight.
Nope, AF stopped doing this quite some time ago already, on European flights at least.
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Old May 20, 12, 11:48 am
  #53  
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Originally Posted by carnarvon View Post
Nope, AF stopped doing this quite some time ago already, on European flights at least.
I think you are right for Euro flights. I'm taking one tomorrow so I'll try to remember. However I'm pretty sure they still do on Intercontinental flights. The other FB airlines, KL and KQ also check BP's at the door on long haul flights.
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Old May 20, 12, 12:13 pm
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Originally Posted by stimpy View Post
I think you are right for Euro flights. I'm taking one tomorrow so I'll try to remember. However I'm pretty sure they still do on Intercontinental flights. The other FB airlines, KL and KQ also check BP's at the door on long haul flights.
For long haul they have to, in order to direct you to the right cabin.
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Old May 20, 12, 12:56 pm
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Originally Posted by stimpy View Post
I think you are right for Euro flights. I'm taking one tomorrow so I'll try to remember. However I'm pretty sure they still do on Intercontinental flights. The other FB airlines, KL and KQ also check BP's at the door on long haul flights.
I guess they do that because many are confused by the seats configuration and wouldn't know which aisle to take (most seem confused in a single-aisle aircraft and start looking for their 33C seat at the beginning of the plane, but that's another problem...) Or don't know if they need to turn right or left. I don't think it has anything to do with pretend security. I don't find that very welcoming, but apparently you like it, so more power to you.
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Old May 20, 12, 1:07 pm
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Originally Posted by Richelieu View Post
(...) I don't find that very welcoming, but apparently you like it, so more power to you.
I would share stimpy's fondness for BP checks; in the sense that if one is a FF, an eye contact with the (professional) purser who notices your "elite" status may make you feel recognised and ... welcome <blush>.
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Old May 20, 12, 6:34 pm
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Originally Posted by carnarvon View Post
I would share stimpy's fondness for BP checks; in the sense that if one is a FF, an eye contact with the (professional) purser who notices your "elite" status may make you feel recognised and ... welcome <blush>.
Why do I have to show a paper to be greeted?? I go in to shops, restaurants, meetings, whatever, and people can be warm and welcoming. What is that pretext of needing to bother me to free up one hand and get out my phone on which I have my BP, needing to unlock it, click on the application, make sure that the screen doesn't turn - and all of that for info which I had shown 4 meters earlier? It's bothering me more than anything else. I like a warm welcome, but not if I have to be inconvencied to obtain it.

And as for recognizing the status pax: in >10 years of Platinum I have been greeted exactly zero times by my name, and other information on my BP has been ignored such as the fact that I was sitting in row 2 and the chap who just passed in front of me was sitting behind the curtain but still put his camping gear in the baggage lockers on top of the row I was sitting on.

Let's not get absurd and elevate AF's control-nonsense which exists for falsely-understood security pretexts into a high level of customer service.

On the other hand, another airline that I am flying very often has found other ways to spot their top tier customers. In those cases where I still hold a BP in my hand (rare) they somehow have a trained eye and spot the status from far away; or they see the baggage tag and realize that the seat that is going to be occupied by the top tier customer is still empty - so they venture out and ask whether it's him; and in other cases they just give a normal warm welcome and then later on come to my seat and greet me by name.

Glad they stopped that on shorthaul. As for longhaul, indeed most airlines look at BPs at the entry, but not as a condition to step on board (like AF did and still does on longhaul) but as a courtesy for lost pax. But if you arrive with a look on your face of someone who seems to know his way around and tell them "I am in 4A, I know it's to my left here along this aisle" they'll happily let you through. Not sure about AF longhaul these days.
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Old May 20, 12, 7:33 pm
  #58  
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Originally Posted by San Gottardo View Post
Airport security is yet another thing: the entire EU as well as non EU countries that are part of Schengen (e.g. Norway, Switzerland) as well as in some cases the USA are considered "clean", and transfers between these countries can happen without further security control. But that has NOTHING to do with ID checks or border control. In theory one could transfer in GVA from a flight from London to a flight to ROme without security check. But there would be a border control because GVA would be the entry point into the Schengen area.

all Swiss airports - yes
I am glad to hear that it is now possible to transit at ZRH from a "clean" country to another one without having to go through security again. It has been a while since I flew via ZRH but it certainly was the case that you had to go through security again when arriving/departing from/to LHR. Last time I transited via ZRH to go to LON a little over a year ago I had to go through security again and this was coming from ... GVA which, unless I am mistaken, would normally be regarded as a "clean" departure airport at ZRH.

That was also true in Milan (both airports). Ditto for AMS. I seem to recall it being the same as VIE but it has been some time since I flew via there so maybe my memory is failing me. To be honest, my recollection is that the vast majority of European airports only allow to connect without clearing security again for flights coming from Schengen rather than for flights from a clean country simply because the way they have configured departures and arrivals do not allow for distinct flows from non-Schengen clean countries with some exceptions, such as MUC.

Certainly my expectation as someone who regularly originate in LON is that I will be expected to clear security again at the connection point and I am pleasantly surprised when this does not happen.
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Old May 20, 12, 9:28 pm
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I wonder how the "clean country" concept will survive one of them defecting in the War on Liquids...
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Old May 21, 12, 12:35 am
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Originally Posted by Richelieu View Post
I wonder how the "clean country" concept will survive one of them defecting in the War on Liquids...
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