Minos

So what are you standing in line for if not for an Immigration officer???

Oh and..

I hope they will replace the current 911 emergency service to ensure that those who are SkyPriority members get answered first when several houses are on fire.

ixs

Interesting point, as nicholas75 said...

Care to elaborate? What exactly should be the same? The security checks? Or the waiting time? Or something else?

And why?

Discuss.

NickB

Interesting point. I had never thought about it but, yes, it does look like a case of "rupture de l'égalité des citoyens devant les charges publiques", does it not?

JOUY31

atteinte à l'égalité des usagers devant un service public régalien

Source: http://www.ccomptes.fr/fr/CC/documen...s-de-Paris.pdf (page 11 in this extract, page number 205 of the overall report)

Response to criticism by the auditors from Cour des Comptes (page 16 in this extract, page number 210 of the overall report)
from Ministre de l'Intérieur, de l'Outre-mer et des collectivités territoriales

Note that the criticism from the Cour des Comptes is made in its capacity as auditor of public spending, not as a ruling by an administrative court (which it is also, BTW) judging administrative litigation. This would be the purview of the Tribunal Administratif and the Conseil d'Etat, IMHO.

@NickB: are we headed, as suggested by the Minister's response and San Gottardo's, towards an amusing remake of arrêt Société Commerciale de l'Ouest Africain, dit du Bac d'Eloka from Tribunal des Conflits, with the queuing, managed by ADP, being subject to oversight by courts from l'ordre judiciaire, while the control of documents remains subject to oversight by courts from l'ordre administratif; let's just replace the ferry boat with aviation to keep up with times

ajs123

I believe that placing 2 officers for an A380 is a passive aggresive way of saying enrol to Parafes. Anyone with an EU passport who travels outside Schengen from CDG at least once a year should get it...

San Gottardo

Right. And stop secure traveler programs as well as biometric immigration gates, after all they go faster through security/immigration as well. And abolish agencies that take money for organizing visas for people as well as relocation agencies who take money for speeding up certain bureaucratic processes. And why on earth does a big company's CEO have access to Pres. Obama and I do not? He's as much a citizen as I am, and the President is supposed to be doing his job "equally" for him and for me.

And why am I supposed to pay a security surcharge anyway for security screening if paying more security surcharge (part of the difference being paid by the airline) doesn't get me a better access?

In the end noone is discriminated against, everybody gets his passport checked, and taking this "equality" argument too far becomes absurd.

brunos

It is so much fun to read this thread from 10,000kms away. FUN, fun!

I remember when I was based in France, and young, the controversy surrounding first class cars in the Métro. A major motivation for removing them (not the only one) was the "égalité" campaign: why should rich people be able to avoid the packed sweaty crowds at rush hours?
Along the same line, AF should fly one-class planes (I let them decide whether it should be only Première or only Economy). Of course, foreigners do not get the same égalité right, so they should travel in the hold.

Minos

Here are the taxes you pay for a CDG-TUN flight on May 2nd:

Economy Class:
French Aviation Civile Tax (FR) €7.62
French International Passenger Service Charge (QX) €26.81
French Airport Tax (FR) €12.75
French Air Passenger Solidarity Tax (IZ) €4.00

Business Class:
AF YQ surcharge (YQ) €41.00
French Aviation Civile Tax (FR) €7.62
French International Passenger Service Charge (QX) €26.81
French Airport Tax (FR) €12.75
French Air Passenger Solidarity Tax (IZ) €40.00

There is no reason whatsoever you should get a preferencial treatment for something that is not airline related, and that is a service provided by the state. When I say service, I am speaking inclusive of:
- the queue
- the check
- the x-ray
- the immigration
Because without border control services, there would not be queues and with more officers on duty, there would be no or little queue.

By the way, you conveniently forgot to answer whether you would be for a dual-speed system for the 911 emergency service to cater faster for the SkyPriority members.

Minos

Minos

By the way, I also hope you will get your Speeding Fine Tickets processed within 24hr and delivered with NextDay Fedex service. Also I hope you will get a reduced pay-by or compliance date.
Everything should be faster, smoother and without red-tape for Skypriority members...

JOUY31

OK, now is the time to put an end to jabs directed at other posters. Thanks for your understanding.

Jouy31
Air France/KLM co-moderator

NickB

. But does this not assume that there is a distinct service public industriel et commercial in relation to queuing distinct from the service public administratif of passport control? The idea of a "service public de la queue" is, I must say, rather intriguing...

Whatever one thinks of it, there is a technical legal question here regarding the scope of the equality principle in French public law. One source of complication is that the notion of 'public service' in French law is developed, for better or worse, far more widely than in many other legal systems and that the concept of public service has the effect of attracting (albeit to varying degrees depending on whether one is dealing with core 'administrative' public services or more remote " industrial/commercial" public services) the application of public law standards (and, as Jouy31 hints at, jurisdiction of administrative law courts rather than civil courts).

As regards passport control, however, this is not a France-specific issue. France is very far from being the only country in which there is no dedicated fast track service for premium class passengers, the US being another quite prominent example.

This is rather different. There has never been any legal issue with providing separate classes of travel on public transport, even when that transport is conceptualised as a ("industrial and/or commercial") public service. You only need to look at the SNCF as an example of that.

Passport control, however, is a 'service public administratif' rather than a 'service public à caractère industriel et commercial', which therefore gives rise to the application of stricter public law standards.

JOUY31

This would be a nice one and also shows how discussing administrative law on FT can be fun! I was thinking more along the lines, as suggested by the Minister's response, of a service public industriel et commercial d'exploitation d'une plate-forme aéroportuaire ouverte aux passagers commerciaux.

.

Minos

If you could make this into a single word, you would have a heck of a long word... ;-)

olivedel

I am sure Germans can make that a single word!

SDQBound

Arrived from ATL to CDG a few weeks ago. At the immigration queue, showed my BP with SkyPriority and they sent me through the Accès No. 1 lane, where I was the only one standing, with a long regular lane. Stangely, when it was my turn, a passenger from the regular lane walked on to the immigration booth. After this passenger was done, the officer called me, but another person from the regular lane walked on, this time with an attitude. I was trying to be polite, but when my turn came again, a third person wanted to go instead of me, but the officer told him to wait and called me.

Is this something normal? And if it is, should I stop being polite with the regular lane passengers and just walk to the immigration booth with a DYKWIA attitude?