Walking route through CDG 2F to 2E

Reply

Old May 12, 12, 4:35 am
  #16  
Moderator: Flying Blue (Air France & KLM), France and TravelBuzz!
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Paris, France, AF F+ Rouge pour toujours, Flying Blue whatever, LH FTL, HHonors Gold, formerly proud SCC Executive, now IC Ambassador, BA down to nobody, Grand Voyageur Le Club
Posts: 12,191
Originally Posted by mtkeller View Post
What is it with the French and using arrows that point down to mean "Go straight ahead"?
Well, it is probably a French thing, as it is quite common and easily understood in France. As ADP is preparing its second phase of enhancements to signage, what would you recommend that is easily understood in most cultural environments worldwide?
JOUY31 is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old May 12, 12, 8:52 am
  #17  
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: SUX
Programs: BA Silver; HHonors Gold; SPG Gold; Points but dirt with everyone else
Posts: 8,049
Originally Posted by JOUY31 View Post
Well, it is probably a French thing, as it is quite common and easily understood in France. As ADP is preparing its second phase of enhancements to signage, what would you recommend that is easily understood in most cultural environments worldwide?
The London Underground signage is widely respected as some of the best in the world, and LU uses an upward pointing arrow to mean straight ahead. A downward pointing arrow suggests the need to go down a flight of stairs or escalator, and in the absence of a means of going down, I always start wondering if the sign means I should turn around. I can't think of anywhere I've been outside of France that uses a downward pointing arrow as an indication of "keep going the direction you're walking". I imagine there are probably other places, but it seems they would still constitute a minority of the world. The only time an upward arrow could create confusion is if some traffic should go straight and other traffic should go up a set of stairs. In that case, you could place the sign so that using an up+right or up+left arrow points toward the stairs and the up arrow points the direction those who should not use the stairs should proceed.
mtkeller is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old May 12, 12, 9:11 am
  #18  
Moderator: Flying Blue (Air France & KLM), France and TravelBuzz!
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Paris, France, AF F+ Rouge pour toujours, Flying Blue whatever, LH FTL, HHonors Gold, formerly proud SCC Executive, now IC Ambassador, BA down to nobody, Grand Voyageur Le Club
Posts: 12,191
I may be dense, but doesn't the argument work both ways?
Originally Posted by mtkeller View Post
The only time an [downward] upward arrow could create confusion is if some traffic should go straight and other traffic should go [down] up a set of stairs.
I can't remember how roadsigns are setup on superhighways in the US or motorways in the UK. Do the arrows to select a lane point downwards or upwards -it's downwards in France-, or is that a bad analogy?
JOUY31 is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old May 12, 12, 12:48 pm
  #19  
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: SUX
Programs: BA Silver; HHonors Gold; SPG Gold; Points but dirt with everyone else
Posts: 8,049
Originally Posted by JOUY31 View Post
I may be dense, but doesn't the argument work both ways?


I can't remember how roadsigns are setup on superhighways in the US or motorways in the UK. Do the arrows to select a lane point downwards or upwards -it's downwards in France-, or is that a bad analogy?
Those do point downward, at least in the US. (I have only driven once in the UK, so I can't really comment on signs in the UK.) I think the analogy is not as good there, as the arrows designate lanes ("Go under this arrow.") rather than direction. I think such a thing would make sense, say, at passport control: EU citizens go in this lane, passing under the sign, non-EU citizens go in this lane, passing under the sign.

The reason switching up for down is problematic is that down could suggest back, as in turn around, at least to me. Maybe it's just me that finds the signs nonstandard, but I think that at a major international hub, signage should reflect whatever predominates globally. If there is no consensus and I've just not been to other countries using the down arrows, then the local consensus makes most sense even if it confuses Americans.
mtkeller is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old May 15, 12, 2:12 am
  #20  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: London, UK and Southern France
Posts: 15,781
Originally Posted by mtkeller View Post
Maybe it's just me that finds the signs nonstandard, but I think that at a major international hub, signage should reflect whatever predominates globally. If there is no consensus and I've just not been to other countries using the down arrows, then the local consensus makes most sense even if it confuses Americans.
Well, that is debatable. Assuming that the premise is correct (viz. French people expect down and up arrows to mean respectively straight ahead and up whereas non-French people expect down arrows to mean respectively downstairs and straight ahead), I am not quite sure why the latter constituency should necessarily be regarded as more deserving of directions corresponding to their expectations. The number of French people using CDG will be probably just as large as the others. Moreover, if the premise is right, I would not necessarily assume that French practices have not been followed in a number of other countries, in particular Francophone ex-colonies, which would also represent a sizeable number of CDG users. Realistically, in such a situation, the political pressures on adp would be to comply with French usage.

That said, I am not so sure about the premise. I cannot say that I have actively thought about it but I have not found signing in France and England generally any more or less confusing so it cannot just be a direction of arrow thing, otherwise I would have thought one country confusing and the other not. Actively thinking about it, I would regard an up arrow as signifying EITHER straight ahead or upstairs depending on the available pathways and similarly a down arrow as EITHER straight ahead or downstairs.

Systematic use of a stairs or escalator pictogram next to the arrow to signify changes of level seem to me a better way to distinguish change of levels rather than attributing a change of level to a down arrow (or up arrow) and not to the other.

Last edited by NickB; May 15, 12 at 2:17 am
NickB is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 8, 12, 8:31 am
  #21  
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Netherlands
Programs: AF/KL FB Gold, Accorhotels Silver
Posts: 10
Originally Posted by Goldorak View Post
If it is a schengen to non-schengen one, I definitely recommend you to walk yo 2E, whatever your gate is at 2E. If it is E28-47, you proceed to arrival at 2F, as if you were ending your trip in CDG and, when you arrive in the public zone, just go straight ahead to 2E (it will be a 5 min walk only). If E51-76 (satellite S3 of 2E), you have to stay airside and follow the signs for these gates. The walk is longer than for the other gates but this is clearly the best way to do it
Sorry to reopen this forum but I'm still trying to get my head around this. So I have a flight AMS -> CDG -> PEK. So if departing 2E 28-47 go land side and 2E 51-76 follow (transfer) signs? But I've recently discovered another forum in which mentioned this PDF http://ompldr.org/vZDFrZg/Hub2012-AF-en.pdf showing additional tunnels as well as M, K and L gates? How would these gates transfer to 2E gate numbers. So to stay airside or not? Does anyone know if these tunnels are open?

Last edited by Jeff831; Sep 8, 12 at 9:35 am
Jeff831 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 8, 12, 9:55 am
  #22  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Accor 25+ Badge 2019 FlyerTalk Awards
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Paris, France
Programs: AF/KL Flying Blue Platinum for life/Club2000 Ultimate, UA Mileage plus, Le Club Accorhotels platinum
Posts: 12,791
Originally Posted by Jeff831 View Post
Sorry to reopen this forum but I'm still trying to get my head around this. So I have a flight AMS -> CDG -> PEK. So if departing 2E 28-47 go land side and 2E 51-76 follow (transfer) signs? But I've recently discovered another forum in which mentioned this PDF http://ompldr.org/vZDFrZg/Hub2012-AF-en.pdf showing additional tunnels as well as M, K and L gates? How would these gates transfer to 2E gate numbers. So to stay airside or not? Does anyone know if these tunnels are open?
Since my post, a new concourse (called satellite S4) has been opened at term 2E, so the gates have been renamed/re-numbered.
- gates at the main pier of 2E (ex-E28-E47) are now K gates.
- gates at satellite S3 (ex-E51-E76) are now L gates
- gates at new satellite S4 are M gates
Goldorak is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 4, 12, 2:40 pm
  #23  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Santa Clarita, CA
Programs: Delta Diamond, HHonors Gold, Marriott Silver, Club Carlson Gold
Posts: 624
I did 2F to 2E a couple of weeks ago and would have missed my flight if the connection wasn't delayed.

This Wednesday I am flying from FCO-CDG on Alitalia (indicating an arrival in 2F) and then connecting to an Air France flight to LAX.

I've read about Air France meeting pax with short connection but would that definitely not happen because I'm switching for Alitalia (AF code-share flight) to Air France metal.

I am supposed to arrive in from Rome at 9:10 am (though it seems to often be late) and my Air France flight leaves from 2E at 10:30.

How is Air France about automatically rebooking if I miss the cxn? I'm a Skyteam Elite Plus (Delta Diamond).

Thanks!
Mileage Lover is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 4, 12, 11:46 pm
  #24  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Accor 25+ Badge 2019 FlyerTalk Awards
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Paris, France
Programs: AF/KL Flying Blue Platinum for life/Club2000 Ultimate, UA Mileage plus, Le Club Accorhotels platinum
Posts: 12,791
Originally Posted by Mileage Lover View Post
I've read about Air France meeting pax with short connection but would that definitely not happen because I'm switching for Alitalia (AF code-share flight) to Air France metal.

How is Air France about automatically rebooking if I miss the cxn? I'm a Skyteam Elite Plus (Delta Diamond).
I've seen several times AF ground staff waiting for connecting pax at AZ flights. AF & AZ are code-sharing on all flights France/Italy and they even have a JV. But unless your FCO flight is late, I don't think you qualify for such an assistance for short connection.
For rebooking, if you are on a single through ticket, yes they will rebook you for free if you miss your connection.
Goldorak is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 5, 12, 12:35 am
  #25  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Santa Clarita, CA
Programs: Delta Diamond, HHonors Gold, Marriott Silver, Club Carlson Gold
Posts: 624
Originally Posted by Goldorak View Post
I've seen several times AF ground staff waiting for connecting pax at AZ flights. AF & AZ are code-sharing on all flights France/Italy and they even have a JV. But unless your FCO flight is late, I don't think you qualify for such an assistance for short connection.
For rebooking, if you are on a single through ticket, yes they will rebook you for free if you miss your connection.
Thanks much for the info -- hopefully it will be a non-issue but just trying to prepare!
Mileage Lover is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 9, 12, 9:54 am
  #26  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 670
Okay, glad I found this thread as I have a pretty complicated situation:

I fly into CDG from LAX tomorrow and Air France into 2E. I have exactly 1 hour 5 minutes to make a connection to Rome on Alitalia which I think will be in 2F.

I am a dumb American, but my understanding is this is a non-schengen area to Schengen Area connection.

Does this mean I should walk to 2F by going landside like I am leaving the airport? I have never been to CDG, and admit this terrifies me a bit as I have another connection to make at FCO.
THEsocalledfan is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 9, 12, 12:22 pm
  #27  
formerly B7e7US
Marriott Contributor Badge 2019 FlyerTalk Awards
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Paris / Santo Domingo / Washington, DC
Programs: AA PLT, DL PLT,SPG, Priority Pass, Accor LeClub Gold, Thalys Gold, JetBlue Mosaic, Other shiny cards
Posts: 3,789
Originally Posted by THEsocalledfan View Post
Okay, glad I found this thread as I have a pretty complicated situation:

I fly into CDG from LAX tomorrow and Air France into 2E. I have exactly 1 hour 5 minutes to make a connection to Rome on Alitalia which I think will be in 2F.

I am a dumb American, but my understanding is this is a non-schengen area to Schengen Area connection.

Does this mean I should walk to 2F by going landside like I am leaving the airport? I have never been to CDG, and admit this terrifies me a bit as I have another connection to make at FCO.
When you exit to the arrivals lounge, just follow the signs to 2F. You will walk through a very nice underground tunnel, until you reach 2F. Then, just look for the SkyPriority signs to go through security (Poster mentioned his STE+ Status in another thread). Not hard at all.
SDQBound is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 9, 12, 3:56 pm
  #28  
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Italy
Programs: LH Senator, BA Gold, AF Platinum, HH Gold, Hyatt Plat
Posts: 74
It's like moving from one terminal to very close another one in US.
FlyIce is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 25, 12, 9:55 am
  #29  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Programs: AF/KL FB Gold
Posts: 416
Originally Posted by B7e7US View Post
When you exit to the arrivals lounge, just follow the signs to 2F. You will walk through a very nice underground tunnel, until you reach 2F. Then, just look for the SkyPriority signs to go through security (Poster mentioned his STE+ Status in another thread). Not hard at all.
So this is a feature, not a bug? Transferring from a long-haul to a short-haul at CDG did not use to involve exiting through the arrivals lounge - this is a fairly new thing, right? I did not transfer at CDG from February till November, but then did three times in past three weeks [ from an AF long-haul (DEL, JFK) to a short haul (AMS)] and found passing through the arrivals lounge very annoying. Is this going to stay or is it just a temporary annoyance?
ok986 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 25, 12, 10:04 am
  #30  
Moderator: Flying Blue (Air France & KLM), France and TravelBuzz!
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Paris, France, AF F+ Rouge pour toujours, Flying Blue whatever, LH FTL, HHonors Gold, formerly proud SCC Executive, now IC Ambassador, BA down to nobody, Grand Voyageur Le Club
Posts: 12,191
Originally Posted by ok986 View Post
So this is a feature, not a bug? Transferring from a long-haul to a short-haul at CDG did not use to involve exiting through the arrivals lounge - this is a fairly new thing, right? I did not transfer at CDG from February till November, but then did three times in past three weeks [ from an AF long-haul (DEL, JFK) to a short haul (AMS)] and found passing through the arrivals lounge very annoying. Is this going to stay or is it just a temporary annoyance?
Unless I am mistaken, arriving at 2E's main pier (K gates) and connecting to a medium-haul Schengen flight at 2F has always involved going landside at 2E and walking to 2F.

It was only when arriving at S3 (L gates) that you could walk airside to 2F2 and then go through immigration and arrive at the boarding area in 2F1.

ADP should soon open an airside passageway for connections from 2F to 2E's main pier, without the need to reclear security. It is unclear whether this passageway will be used for connections from 2E's main pier to 2F. In any case, if it does, it will require going through security.
JOUY31 is online now  
Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Search this Thread