Travelling as a GP
Dec 6, 2010, 2:55 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2004
Programs: FB Plat for life
Posts: 730
Travelling as a GP
Recently I had the chance to travel as a GP on a long haul AF flight.
A friend of mine is a flying attendant on AF (PNC) and invited me with her boyfriend for a long Week end on the other side of the globe
Cost of the trip:
270€ for a 12 hours flight for a confirmed ticket (could be cheaper but without a guaranteed seat so we selected a safer solution)
All flying attendant have 4 tickets per year that they can use for guest with the restriction that the guest travel with them
Tickets where book in L class long time in advance (limited availability) but do not provide you any miles
Check in:
At the self check in the system could not assigned any seat for 2 out of the 3 pax
At check in the agent told us that Y was overbooked and that the 2 pax where upgraded to PV and for the other one (me by the way) we should wait to see what happen. Just a few exchange later between my friend (PNC) and the agent, he made a call for the flight supervisor and got me to PV.
Showed him my plat card at some point he told me it was useless to collect miles on such trip (just wanted to confirm) but that I could still use it to go to the lounge
Lounge:
Was prepared to pay the 35€ for an additional guest since we where a party of 3 with only one plat card
Lounge dragon after looking at my BP and my card told me that I was not allowed to use the lounge on such ticket but after 2-3 minutes of discussion let us all 3 get into the lounge (without paying for one additional guest)
Had a very nice and relaxing stay in the lounge
Boarding:
We boarded last, my friend PNC introduced herself when getting into the plane, Chief purser ask us whether we if were in PV already and told us that it will be difficult to do any better tonight as the plane was very full. We waited 5 additional minutes at the entrance of the plane. Finally only one seat was available in biz which I took (thanks to the others).
Several other pax where moved from PV to Biz but had higher on board op up priority than us (see bellow)
Flight was great and I could sleep very well after a nice dinner and a bit of champagne/wine
Returning flight:
We did an OCLI in order to secure reasonable seats in coach as we knew the flight was very full. Got assigned 3 seats in coach
My friend (PNC) at the airport went to see a check in agent to see if any better seat could be available but flight was too full and upgrades if any would be at the gate
Lounge:
Didn’t had really time nor interest to go to the lounge that day so I didn’t try it again and cannot confirm if the access we had in Paris was really exceptional or not (I don’t think it is very common anyhow to have a Plat pax travelling as a GP)
Boarding:
Boarded last, my friend PNC introduced herself to the chief purser
He wasn’t very available, asked my friend whether she was a flying attendant or ground staff but anyhow flight was extremely full and it will be difficult to have better seats.
Several other pax waiting with us at the entrance got the last PV seats and Biz
Had a normal Y flight back home
Overall here is what I could understand of the upgrade priority with AF
Standard Opup:
GP have a very high priority in case of overbooking
I told my PNC friend that our understanding was that GP had higher priority than elite.She couldn’t believe it only until we all got upgraded. She will investigate at some point.
On board upgrade:
On board upgrade has it owns rules and codes. First of all it is to the discretion of the chief purser (with the agreement from the pilote) to go the extra miles on not.
Priority is:
Of course there is all the story about pilote wife and so on whom have an even higher priority but that I couldn’t witness on that trip
When you get an on board upgrade it is the rules to offer chocolates to the crew
Overall it was a nice week end and interessting to see for once how it is on the other side of the curtain
A friend of mine is a flying attendant on AF (PNC) and invited me with her boyfriend for a long Week end on the other side of the globe
Cost of the trip:
270€ for a 12 hours flight for a confirmed ticket (could be cheaper but without a guaranteed seat so we selected a safer solution)
All flying attendant have 4 tickets per year that they can use for guest with the restriction that the guest travel with them
Tickets where book in L class long time in advance (limited availability) but do not provide you any miles
Check in:
At the self check in the system could not assigned any seat for 2 out of the 3 pax
At check in the agent told us that Y was overbooked and that the 2 pax where upgraded to PV and for the other one (me by the way) we should wait to see what happen. Just a few exchange later between my friend (PNC) and the agent, he made a call for the flight supervisor and got me to PV.
Showed him my plat card at some point he told me it was useless to collect miles on such trip (just wanted to confirm) but that I could still use it to go to the lounge
Lounge:
Was prepared to pay the 35€ for an additional guest since we where a party of 3 with only one plat card
Lounge dragon after looking at my BP and my card told me that I was not allowed to use the lounge on such ticket but after 2-3 minutes of discussion let us all 3 get into the lounge (without paying for one additional guest)
Had a very nice and relaxing stay in the lounge
Boarding:
We boarded last, my friend PNC introduced herself when getting into the plane, Chief purser ask us whether we if were in PV already and told us that it will be difficult to do any better tonight as the plane was very full. We waited 5 additional minutes at the entrance of the plane. Finally only one seat was available in biz which I took (thanks to the others).
Several other pax where moved from PV to Biz but had higher on board op up priority than us (see bellow)
Flight was great and I could sleep very well after a nice dinner and a bit of champagne/wine
Returning flight:
We did an OCLI in order to secure reasonable seats in coach as we knew the flight was very full. Got assigned 3 seats in coach
My friend (PNC) at the airport went to see a check in agent to see if any better seat could be available but flight was too full and upgrades if any would be at the gate
Lounge:
Didn’t had really time nor interest to go to the lounge that day so I didn’t try it again and cannot confirm if the access we had in Paris was really exceptional or not (I don’t think it is very common anyhow to have a Plat pax travelling as a GP)
Boarding:
Boarded last, my friend PNC introduced herself to the chief purser
He wasn’t very available, asked my friend whether she was a flying attendant or ground staff but anyhow flight was extremely full and it will be difficult to have better seats.
Several other pax waiting with us at the entrance got the last PV seats and Biz
Had a normal Y flight back home
Overall here is what I could understand of the upgrade priority with AF
Standard Opup:
GP have a very high priority in case of overbooking
I told my PNC friend that our understanding was that GP had higher priority than elite.She couldn’t believe it only until we all got upgraded. She will investigate at some point.
On board upgrade:
On board upgrade has it owns rules and codes. First of all it is to the discretion of the chief purser (with the agreement from the pilote) to go the extra miles on not.
Priority is:
- AF personnel flying for business (on our return flight 3 PNC came back as pax with Y tickets, it happens sometime when there is a change of aircraft type (777-300 -> 777-200) between the onward and return flight)
- GP accompanying chief purser
- GP Accompanying crew
- GP working as PNC
- GP working on the ground
Of course there is all the story about pilote wife and so on whom have an even higher priority but that I couldn’t witness on that trip
When you get an on board upgrade it is the rules to offer chocolates to the crew
Overall it was a nice week end and interessting to see for once how it is on the other side of the curtain
Dec 7, 2010, 12:45 am
#2
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hong Kong, France
Programs: FB , BA Gold
Posts: 15,555
Of course there is all the story about pilote wife and so on whom have an even higher priority but that I couldn’t witness on that trip
When you get an on board upgrade it is the rules to offer chocolates to the crew
Overall it was a nice week end and interessting to see for once how it is on the other side of the curtain
Dec 7, 2010, 1:24 am
#3
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 8,527
Just have an AF crew ID made (Hong Kong would be the logical place to do it) and ingratiatingly introduce yourself as crew next time you board on your economy reservation. That should be the ticket to an upgrade.
Dec 7, 2010, 2:32 am
#4
Moderator: Flying Blue (Air France & KLM)
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Rotterdam, NL
Programs: Flying Blue (AF/KL)
Posts: 4,711
Interesting story, thank you for sharing.
Always interesting to see how the OPUP logic is done.
It would appear it is quite different from KLM (based on my one experience).
Our neighbour has a friend who is a KLM flight attendant and when she travels with her (on a employee ticket) she gets upgraded on board if there is space available (i.e. outside of gate agents knowledge).
Gajan
Always interesting to see how the OPUP logic is done.
It would appear it is quite different from KLM (based on my one experience).
Our neighbour has a friend who is a KLM flight attendant and when she travels with her (on a employee ticket) she gets upgraded on board if there is space available (i.e. outside of gate agents knowledge).
Gajan
Last edited by Gajan; Dec 7, 2010 at 2:40 am
Dec 7, 2010, 2:54 am
#5
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: JNB
Programs: Air France Platinum - Qatar Airways Gold
Posts: 1,659
Dec 7, 2010, 2:59 am
#6
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 443
Dear Pauillac,
I thank you very much for your very informative post.
First : I fully agree to upgrades for AF personnel flying for business. I suppose that each and every company do the same.
Second : I understand that parents of the CC may be upgraded with a high priority.
Third : I dont get why other GPs should take better seats than paying pax, and, one point more, PV PLAT pax to Biz.
The third point explains why, although I was Plat, I never was upgraded to and from the FWI, considering the huge number of GPs.
Maybe I should try non-GP-friendly destinations like Lagos or Antananarivo.
I thank you very much for your very informative post.
First : I fully agree to upgrades for AF personnel flying for business. I suppose that each and every company do the same.
Second : I understand that parents of the CC may be upgraded with a high priority.
Third : I dont get why other GPs should take better seats than paying pax, and, one point more, PV PLAT pax to Biz.
The third point explains why, although I was Plat, I never was upgraded to and from the FWI, considering the huge number of GPs.
Maybe I should try non-GP-friendly destinations like Lagos or Antananarivo.
Dec 7, 2010, 3:22 am
#7
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hong Kong, France
Programs: FB , BA Gold
Posts: 15,555
As pointed out in previous threads, there are two issues. 1) One is that of opup, meaning that Y is overbooked and the question is who gets upgraded in priority. 2) The second is upgrade when Y is not full and pax get upgraded to C anyway.
1) This is done prior to boarding and the flight manager has leeway. While elite have theoretical priorities, it appears that GP/friends tends to be opuped first.
2) This is usually done after boarding (the guys standing up), and that seems reserved for GP/friends.
Just as an example I print below the CX formal (and followed) priority list for opup. Note that CX Gold (OW Saphire) is not a high status (below Diamond and Diamond Plus) and is equivalent to BA silver. I am not aware of upgrades once the doors are closed as happens on AF, or at least it is very uncommon:
1. VIP (Heads of State, Government Bodies, or Canto Pop/Movie stars)
2. CX Diamond Plus
3. CX Diamond Invitation, Diamond
4. CX Gold
5. CX management staff on travel duty
6. oneworld Emerald
7. CX staff on duty nominees , other airline staff nominees, CX staff on personal travel
8. oneworld Sapphire
9. CX Silver
10. oneworld Ruby
11. CX Green
12. Asia Miles
13. Non status
1) This is done prior to boarding and the flight manager has leeway. While elite have theoretical priorities, it appears that GP/friends tends to be opuped first.
2) This is usually done after boarding (the guys standing up), and that seems reserved for GP/friends.
Just as an example I print below the CX formal (and followed) priority list for opup. Note that CX Gold (OW Saphire) is not a high status (below Diamond and Diamond Plus) and is equivalent to BA silver. I am not aware of upgrades once the doors are closed as happens on AF, or at least it is very uncommon:
1. VIP (Heads of State, Government Bodies, or Canto Pop/Movie stars)
2. CX Diamond Plus
3. CX Diamond Invitation, Diamond
4. CX Gold
5. CX management staff on travel duty
6. oneworld Emerald
7. CX staff on duty nominees , other airline staff nominees, CX staff on personal travel
8. oneworld Sapphire
9. CX Silver
10. oneworld Ruby
11. CX Green
12. Asia Miles
13. Non status
Dec 7, 2010, 4:02 am
#8
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 443
Brunos,
That confirms my opinion :
If the flight is overbooked, the high priority of GPs allow them the upgrade seats and then paying Plat may have one, which is very unfrequent IMHO.
If the flight is not overbooked, only GPs are upgraded after the doors are closed.
It is sad to realize that Plat passengers are "necessary evil", and I dont very well understand what the advantages of being Plat are (my point : suppose the flight is overbooked by ten. There are 8 GPs. Only two Plat are upgraded (not sure : maybe two full fare passengers will be).
In fact, the only way to travel Biz is to pay Biz, that makes sense in the AF approach, lets see if other carriers act another way.
That confirms my opinion :
If the flight is overbooked, the high priority of GPs allow them the upgrade seats and then paying Plat may have one, which is very unfrequent IMHO.
If the flight is not overbooked, only GPs are upgraded after the doors are closed.
It is sad to realize that Plat passengers are "necessary evil", and I dont very well understand what the advantages of being Plat are (my point : suppose the flight is overbooked by ten. There are 8 GPs. Only two Plat are upgraded (not sure : maybe two full fare passengers will be).
In fact, the only way to travel Biz is to pay Biz, that makes sense in the AF approach, lets see if other carriers act another way.
Dec 7, 2010, 4:13 am
#9
FlyerTalk Evangelist, Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Somewhere between 0 and 13,000 metres high
Programs: AF/KL Life Plat, BA GGL+GfL, ALL Plat, Hilton Diam, Marriott Gold, blablablah, etc
Posts: 30,520
Hi Pauillac,
Thanks indeed for your informative experience! Just to reemphasise brunos's point: I'm not sure your experience contradicts the understanding of most of us that AF staff and friends and family are upgraded routinely to business class on a space available basis. As you said, the two flights you took were 'very full' and the pursers mentioned that it would be 'difficult to do better' under the circumstances (indeed, I should hope they wouldn't downgrade paid passengers to make space for GPs
) but it seems to me that this suggests that had the flights not been full, they would have endeavoured to upgrade you all to J once on board (hence people waiting at the front of the cabin until boarding is complete). As brunos says, this is very different from opups which are managed at the gate.
Your point about the various 'sub-categories' of GPs is useful - I also think there might be differences made between those on confirmed reservations and those on the cheapest space available rate whom, I have always heard, are paradoxically treated a bit better. Your point about chocolates is indeed fun too - but organisationally, I suppose it means that your friends had bought chocolates already, and thus that they were expecting that there would be a fairly good chance of success!
Thanks indeed for your informative experience! Just to reemphasise brunos's point: I'm not sure your experience contradicts the understanding of most of us that AF staff and friends and family are upgraded routinely to business class on a space available basis. As you said, the two flights you took were 'very full' and the pursers mentioned that it would be 'difficult to do better' under the circumstances (indeed, I should hope they wouldn't downgrade paid passengers to make space for GPs
) but it seems to me that this suggests that had the flights not been full, they would have endeavoured to upgrade you all to J once on board (hence people waiting at the front of the cabin until boarding is complete). As brunos says, this is very different from opups which are managed at the gate.Your point about the various 'sub-categories' of GPs is useful - I also think there might be differences made between those on confirmed reservations and those on the cheapest space available rate whom, I have always heard, are paradoxically treated a bit better. Your point about chocolates is indeed fun too - but organisationally, I suppose it means that your friends had bought chocolates already, and thus that they were expecting that there would be a fairly good chance of success!
Dec 7, 2010, 4:19 am
#10
Join Date: Mar 2007
Programs: UA 1MM 1K/AF Plat/Marriott Titanium/Hertz PC (who isn't?)/National Exec Elite/CFA Signature
Posts: 193
As pointed out in previous threads, there are two issues. 1) One is that of opup, meaning that Y is overbooked and the question is who gets upgraded in priority. 2) The second is upgrade when Y is not full and pax get upgraded to C anyway.
1) This is done prior to boarding and the flight manager has leeway. While elite have theoretical priorities, it appears that GP/friends tends to be opuped first.
2) This is usually done after boarding (the guys standing up), and that seems reserved for GP/friends.
1) This is done prior to boarding and the flight manager has leeway. While elite have theoretical priorities, it appears that GP/friends tends to be opuped first.
2) This is usually done after boarding (the guys standing up), and that seems reserved for GP/friends.
With all due respect, you are mistaken on 1). Elite do not have theoretical priority over GPs (except for C2000). The system will always upgrade GPs before non C2000 elite. You are right however on the leeway the flight manager has to deviate from the system-generated list, he just does not have to use it to upgrade GPs as they are already on top of the list. F&F might not be, however, since they don't always fly as GPs. That's when the leeway kicks in...
Dec 7, 2010, 8:26 am
#11
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hong Kong, France
Programs: FB , BA Gold
Posts: 15,555
Hi Brunos,
With all due respect, you are mistaken on 1). Elite do not have theoretical priority over GPs (except for C2000). The system will always upgrade GPs before non C2000 elite. You are right however on the leeway the flight manager has to deviate from the system-generated list, he just does not have to use it to upgrade GPs as they are already on top of the list. F&F might not be, however, since they don't always fly as GPs. That's when the leeway kicks in...
With all due respect, you are mistaken on 1). Elite do not have theoretical priority over GPs (except for C2000). The system will always upgrade GPs before non C2000 elite. You are right however on the leeway the flight manager has to deviate from the system-generated list, he just does not have to use it to upgrade GPs as they are already on top of the list. F&F might not be, however, since they don't always fly as GPs. That's when the leeway kicks in...
Dec 7, 2010, 10:42 am
#12
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Derbyshire, UK
Programs: FB Platinum
Posts: 520
Indeed most informative pauillac.........but how about the weekend with you, the lady and her boyfriend
That's what we really want to hear......
nickyboy
in 2E, currently making inroads into the Bombay Sapphire if that's any excuse
That's what we really want to hear......
nickyboy
in 2E, currently making inroads into the Bombay Sapphire if that's any excuse
Dec 7, 2010, 12:25 pm
#13
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 443
Tell me, do I understand correctly ?
Suppose you have this cabin : Biz, PV, Eco.
You are PLAT in PV, you paid for PV, some seats are available in Biz, PV is full, and Eco overbooked.
Does that mean GPs are upgraded direct from Eco to Biz and you stay sticked in PV until all the GPs get a Biz seat, and only then you are listed to be upgraded ?
Suppose you have this cabin : Biz, PV, Eco.
You are PLAT in PV, you paid for PV, some seats are available in Biz, PV is full, and Eco overbooked.
Does that mean GPs are upgraded direct from Eco to Biz and you stay sticked in PV until all the GPs get a Biz seat, and only then you are listed to be upgraded ?
Dec 7, 2010, 4:05 pm
#14
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2004
Programs: FB Plat for life
Posts: 730
sorry to disapoint you but my girl friend was already on site for business and we joined her for the WE
Dec 7, 2010, 4:14 pm
#15
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2004
Programs: FB Plat for life
Posts: 730
Tell me, do I understand correctly ?
Suppose you have this cabin : Biz, PV, Eco.
You are PLAT in PV, you paid for PV, some seats are available in Biz, PV is full, and Eco overbooked.
Does that mean GPs are upgraded direct from Eco to Biz and you stay sticked in PV until all the GPs get a Biz seat, and only then you are listed to be upgraded ?
Suppose you have this cabin : Biz, PV, Eco.
You are PLAT in PV, you paid for PV, some seats are available in Biz, PV is full, and Eco overbooked.
Does that mean GPs are upgraded direct from Eco to Biz and you stay sticked in PV until all the GPs get a Biz seat, and only then you are listed to be upgraded ?
typiccally in the situation you discribe above Y pax would be upgraded to PV (with GP having a high priority) then some PV pax will be upgraded to BIZ (fare and status ranking)
This is why I personnally think that now a days with the introduction of PV if you are allowed to fly in this cabin you have a fairly good chance of being upgraded to biz based on your status since you only compete against Frequent flyers and not GP (on overbooked flight of course). GP will alsmost never book a flight in PV (since they know they can get on board upgrade quite easily)
On board upgrade are different and can be from coach to biz if there is space available and chief purser accepts but it such case it means that the overbooking situation either does not exist or has already been managed.