zurichflyer

Now I have to put a bag or backpack onto the footrest to raise my feet into a more comfortable position - especially for the CDG-PPT trip. I hope that a thinner bag will be sufficient in the future :-)

bodory

Probably with pax who never flew J and are rather are used to fly in the 3-4-3 AF config in Y. Or with pax from EasyJet, AF main competitor...

Cupart

Quite right that SK would not be defined as major airline, and being a pseudo premium LCC they have flat beds but at an angle.

The interesting thing is though, that there is a handle you can pull by the seat so it becomes fully flat horizontal (or at least you used to be able to). This was of course not "advertised" as there was something about the seat manufacturer producing one type of seat and then post modifying these to suit the airline and whatever royalties the airlines then had to pay...

A bit like -> same hardware but different firmware = higher price...

stimpy

Like I said above, VS isn't really a Euro airline.

Momo4Ever

The new LX business class is available on all A330-300 already and progressively installed on the A340. I recently flew ZRH-SFO and it was a very nice experience

sfoeuroflyer

Frankly I see very little good news in this announcement except a larger IFE screen.

Lie flat does not equal horizontal. Full horizontal is where the leaders of the industry are already and where the rest are going. SQ, CX, BA offer excellent horizontal business seats. Even Delt and United are entering that club. So why offer a new seat that already is obsolete?

Second, and in some ways worse, is the fate of the 747. Currently business class in the 747 is disgraceful. Not only are the seats the NEV 1 variety, for most of the aircraft in the fleet the IFE is of the old continuous loop film variety. To make matters worse, even the armrests in the seats have holes cut into them guaranteeing irritation if you try and use them. We were told that these awful cabins were not being improved because AF was going to discontinue the 747. That was three years ago and they are still flying and there is no plan either to improve these planes or get rid of them. Naturally, these terrible 747 cabins are not even on the list for the new seats.

Last, is cabin configuration. CX has re thought how to arrange the seats in the cabin so that no one climbs over you while sleeping. AF is showing remarkable lack of creativity in sticking with traditional forward facing rows.

As for the food, there has been small improvement over recent months. The amuses and appetizers have been improved. The wine glasses much improved. The main courses need a LOT of work. They are not worthy of a first class airline, certainly not a FRENCH airline.

Does AF not market test new product with its best clients????? Is it blind to what its competitors are doing?

carnarvon

Yes. Sad to say so ( coz i am French.<blush>)

brunos

Yes 163-165° is what you can get with a lie-flat on seats spaced 60 to 62". There is no way you can rpae the laws of mathematics. That's a similar angle on NEV3.

brunos

Yes, VS belongs. They have no domestic and European flights, but their longhaul network is quite extensive. Sad that it is hard to fly them from the rest of Europe because they do not have feeder flights.
Even to Latin America you can get flat beds now that LAN is landing in Paris.

QueerEyeForDelta

- Agree. They need to revitalize the 744s or get rid of them. It's awful what they have done to the Queen of the Skies

- CX is not hte only carrier with direct aisle access for J pax. DL has the same strategy

- Too many plastic service items -- appetizers, cheese tray, and sorbet cups. Really cheap and cheesy

The French are mavens of style. This update is really sad. AF needs less bean counters involved in new product design and more gay guys!

TomToronto

Sacré bleu ! How come mediocre *A carriers like MS, TK and US can offer fully flat beds on their new J class products but AF can’t ?

hfly

I honestly cannot believe how pathetic this is, even I did not believe that AF would pull such a crappy move (notice my post a few days ago belittling their old "Espace 127 being space age/ergonomic/whatever!!") and its going to take them several years to roll out this mediocrity??!! What on Earth is wrong with these people? I know that they believe that they have a captive market among French travelers (which they really do not) but do they want to drive every single business traveller away from their airline?

Gate45

Look at the "real-life" pictures in post #55 of this thread:
http://voyageforum.com/voyage/classe...te_D3681389-3/

I thought only the extending thingy of the bottom part of the seat was gone and replaced by the fixed footrest, it turns out there is no bottom part at all left! They have gone from a 3 part construction (+1 extension) to a 2 part (+1 fixed footrest). 2 parts reminds me of a PV seat!

In the fully reclined position, there is a gap in the middle of their 2m bed!

As for the lounging position, no more leg support, you are left with extending your legs over to the foot rest.

This truly is a LCNEV3 (low cost NEV3)!

Again, that might be slightly more comfortable than it looks, but it looks really really bad!

AshleyB

Clearly AF was unwilling to spend the money to offer a competitive flat bed J class product to compete with BA SQ EK etc. given that such a product would have rendered the rather elderly flat bed product they currently offer in Premiere totally redundant. A combination of delusion and vanity has persuaded AF management that they must offer a first class product even though the product they offer is not first class. Before they really push the boat out and get real with their business class they will either have to ditch first completely (a good idea - this company is just not up to it any more) or introduce a new P product that is in conformity with the rest of the market and yet consistent with a seriously competitive J class.

AF management are devaluing their brand and that is a pity.

brunos

Hi AShleyB, I agree with you. But I am afraid that the comparison of J with P is not a strong argument. AF have few F seats in their longhaul fleet and get very, very few P/F revenue pax (as opposed to many other airlines). I doubt that they make money on F, while J traffic is their butter and jam. So what they decide for J is really where their profits will come from. I guess that they will retrofit the awful NEV2 with NEV4, keep the recent NEV3 and spend a lot on advertising their 2m quasi-flat seat (as they did for NEV1).

I think that the main reason they need to keep F is that pilots will go on strike if they remove it as they are extensive (and powerful) users. And AFKL board and top management will be furious. And the CEO will be fired by the French government as the ministers (and other top-level officials) will miss F badly.