Is AC a Little Slow?

Old Dec 6, 08, 10:48 am
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Is AC a Little Slow?

In the air that is. Is it just me, or is anyone else noticing longer flying times on short haul routes?

This week YYC-YVR was 1:11 in the air. Return YVR-YYC was 1:10 in the air. Used to be 65-70 minutes going and never more then 60 minutes coming back YVR-YYC, usually 55-60 min.

Last 4 trips between YYZ-YUL-YOW, also all the flight were a little longer:
YYZ-YOW was 44 minutes in the air last week, never been more than 40, usually 36-40 minutes. YYZ-YUL was 50 min, and this route is usually 44-48 min

Last two tips YUL-YYZ have been 54 min and 56 min each in the air....usually been 46-50 min in the past.

All my longer or medium length flights seem to be operating as normal the past few weeks YYZ-YYC, YVR-YYZ, YYZ-NAS, etc....just the short hauls seem about 10% behind.
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Old Dec 6, 08, 11:00 am
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I'm only guessing this, but maybe it has something to do with fuel consumption.



Originally Posted by mjschill View Post
In the air that is. Is it just me, or is anyone else noticing longer flying times on short haul routes?

This week YYC-YVR was 1:11 in the air. Return YVR-YYC was 1:10 in the air. Used to be 65-70 minutes going and never more then 60 minutes coming back YVR-YYC, usually 55-60 min.

Last 4 trips between YYZ-YUL-YOW, also all the flight were a little longer:
YYZ-YOW was 44 minutes in the air last week, never been more than 40, usually 36-40 minutes. YYZ-YUL was 50 min, and this route is usually 44-48 min

Last two tips YUL-YYZ have been 54 min and 56 min each in the air....usually been 46-50 min in the past.

All my longer or medium length flights seem to be operating as normal the past few weeks YYZ-YYC, YVR-YYZ, YYZ-NAS, etc....just the short hauls seem about 10% behind.
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Old Dec 6, 08, 11:01 am
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IIRC, I read something a number of months ago about AC flying at optimal (fuel effecient) speeds. The power setting will vary flight to flight based on weight and winds.
A jet pilot is welcome to correct me if I'm wrong, but once you go over a certain power setting, the amount of extra power and fuel burn required to go a little faster is significant. I know through personal experience that this is the case in piston engine planes. Drag increases with speed. In my own plane the speed gain from say 60% power to 75% power is not worth the minimal extra speed gained. The 25% increase in power setting equals a speed increase of about 5%, fuel burn increases by about 20%, engine wear increases.
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Old Dec 6, 08, 11:01 am
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It's probably disgruntled ATCs that are causing the delays.

On a more serious note, AC (a few months back) decided to reduce the speed at which they fly. It can add as much as 10 minutes on longer flights. There was mention of it on ac.com when it came out.
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Old Dec 6, 08, 11:04 am
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[QUOTE=brewster;10865738]Wide Bodies Only!!!![QUOTE]

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Old Dec 6, 08, 12:23 pm
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It is a fuel consumption issue.
I can't believe how long some of the block times are getting. Almost 6 hours scheduled for YUL-YVR.
The disgruntled controller issue won't show up until April 1. The same day that disgruntled pilots issues start.
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Old Dec 6, 08, 3:01 pm
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Originally Posted by tracon View Post
It is a fuel consumption issue.
I can't believe how long some of the block times are getting. Almost 6 hours scheduled for YUL-YVR.
The disgruntled controller issue won't show up until April 1. The same day that disgruntled pilots issues start.
Yet I had a YVR-YYZ go in 3h45min ....
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Old Dec 6, 08, 3:15 pm
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Originally Posted by tracon View Post
It is a fuel consumption issue.
I can't believe how long some of the block times are getting. Almost 6 hours scheduled for YUL-YVR.
The disgruntled controller issue won't show up until April 1. The same day that disgruntled pilots issues start.
Next will be disgruntled FA's then disgruntled Management when no bonus will be paid.

last stage is disgruntled passengers when we suffer
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Old Dec 6, 08, 3:44 pm
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There was an article on this in EnRoute a few months back that I recall reading. Sorry - no dates or specifics. It mentioned that flight times will be slightly longer (I think I recall about 2 minutes more per hour - but not sure). This was to optimize fuel consumption.

Cheers!
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Old Dec 6, 08, 4:18 pm
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Originally Posted by lcohen999 View Post
Yet I had a YVR-YYZ go in 3h45min ....
Holy, when was that? I had a Jetsgo flight in 2004 that was 4 hours gate-to-gate on that run, but only because there was already a 2 and a half hour delay due to equipment
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Old Dec 6, 08, 6:51 pm
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Originally Posted by taupo View Post
A jet pilot is welcome to correct me if I'm wrong, but once you go over a certain power setting, the amount of extra power and fuel burn required to go a little faster is significant. I know through personal experience that this is the case in piston engine planes. Drag increases with speed. In my own plane the speed gain from say 60% power to 75% power is not worth the minimal extra speed gained. The 25% increase in power setting equals a speed increase of about 5%, fuel burn increases by about 20%, engine wear increases.
Yes -- drag is proportionate to the cube of the airspeed. On an aircraft where rolling resistance is not a factor (as it is in a car), that makes rough calculations easy. Slowing down by 10% means that you have reduced energy lost to drag (and thus fuel consumption, as the engine efficiency doesn't that vary much) by 1 - 0.9x0.9x0.9 or 27%.
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Old Dec 6, 08, 7:04 pm
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Originally Posted by lcohen999 View Post
Yet I had a YVR-YYZ go in 3h45min ....
Pilot probably found the jetstream and just rode it. Extremely strong this time of the year.

I had YXE-YYZ go a little over 2 hours a few years ago in an AC 732. That was nuts. Must have had 150-170 mi/hour winds helping us.
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Old Dec 7, 08, 8:34 am
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[QUOTE=taupo;10865755][QUOTE=brewster;10865738]Wide Bodies Only!!!!

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Old Dec 7, 08, 1:11 pm
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Here's a comparison in flight time between WJ and AC for the redeye YVR-YYZ flight over the past few days.

06-Dec-2008 AC3:50 WJ3:53 AC-3
05-Dec-2008 AC4:08 WJ3:59 AC+9
04-Dec-2008 AC4:12 WJ4:11 AC+1
03-Dec-2008 AC4:14 WJ4:10 AC+4
02-Dec-2008 AC3:54 WJ4:07 AC-13*
01-Dec-2008 AC4:07 WJ4:00 AC+7
30-Nov-2008 AC4:06 WJ4:10 AC-4
29-Nov-2008 AC4:10 WJ4:02 AC+8
28-Nov-2008 AC4:08 WJ4:04 AC+4

*On 2 December, AC operated a 77W which could explain the difference.

It does appear that AC is taking a few minutes longer. AC generally operates a 763 on this flight (normal cruising speed Mach 0.8) whereas WJ uses a 737-700 with a lower normal cruising speed (Mach 0.785).
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Old Dec 9, 08, 3:37 am
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I flew YVR-YYZ red-eye mid November on the 77W. Flight was scheduled to take off 10:30 pm and land 6:05 am. We killed time by waiting at the gate at YVR until 11:10 pm due to the anticipated strong jet stream, and not being able to land in YYZ before the 6 am curfew. We were the first aircraft to land at YYZ at 6:01 am.
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