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"Somewhat scary one near Winnipeg" - The AC Master Incidents Thread

"Somewhat scary one near Winnipeg" - The AC Master Incidents Thread

Old Nov 24, 2023, 4:07 am
  #4726  
 
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Originally Posted by songsc
Low flyby over mountains is quite common for certain approaches at certain airports, such as arriving YVR from the northwest. It does look scary sometime because I find it hard to gauge the distance and the height of the mountains and they appear very close sometime, especially in foggy weather as a mountain may suddenly appear at a pretty close distance.
Sure, in normal conditions it'd be one thing, but everyone would've also been wearing oxygen masks and the plane dropped by 20,000ft pretty quick. Those of us with a good grasp of aviation will understand that everything's probably going to be fine, but for most people, yeah, a "somewhat scary one" for sure.
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Old Nov 24, 2023, 11:16 am
  #4727  
 
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Originally Posted by warrens
Sure, in normal conditions it'd be one thing, but everyone would've also been wearing oxygen masks and the plane dropped by 20,000ft pretty quick. Those of us with a good grasp of aviation will understand that everything's probably going to be fine, but for most people, yeah, a "somewhat scary one" for sure.
But the masks did not drop, the aircraft did not depressurize and only descended to a lower altitude for precaution. The reason for the emergency landing was a pressurization indication warning.
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Old Nov 30, 2023, 10:22 am
  #4728  
 
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AC342 returning to YVR.
Autopilot not working.
Declared emergency because of overweight landing.

https://www.flightradar24.com/ACA342/33086c82

https://www.flightaware.com/live/flight/ACA342

Last edited by tracon; Nov 30, 2023 at 12:03 pm Reason: Added reason for return.
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Old Nov 30, 2023, 12:52 pm
  #4729  
 
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Originally Posted by tracon
AC342 returning to YVR.
Autopilot not working.
Queue the "Otto the Auto Pilot" references from Airplane!
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Old Dec 7, 2023, 4:00 pm
  #4730  
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AC 562 had a go-around at SFO 28R due to wake turbulence from a 777 on 28L.

I, alas, was just watching from the MLL terrace.

SFO's runway configurations sure seem to cause a few "somewhat scary ones".
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Old Dec 7, 2023, 4:46 pm
  #4731  
 
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At YTZ, ATC usually warns smaller aircrafts if they think they may be affected by the wake turbulence from the larger DH4s. Student pilots are usually advised to abort landing and go around unless they get permission from their instructor onboard.

I wonder if it's instructed by ATC or pilots made the decision in this case. Sometime the landing aircraft is a bit too fast, or the departing aircraft is a bit slow, or the wind changed. Lots of possibilities to be affected by wake turbulence despite following a safe spacing.
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Old Dec 7, 2023, 8:47 pm
  #4732  
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Originally Posted by songsc
At YTZ, ATC usually warns smaller aircrafts if they think they may be affected by the wake turbulence from the larger DH4s. Student pilots are usually advised to abort landing and go around unless they get permission from their instructor onboard.

I wonder if it's instructed by ATC or pilots made the decision in this case. Sometime the landing aircraft is a bit too fast, or the departing aircraft is a bit slow, or the wind changed. Lots of possibilities to be affected by wake turbulence despite following a safe spacing.
From my laymen view from the terrace, they definitely hit the wake turbulence. I don't think it was an instruction to go around. I think it was a reaction based on many many hours of experience. And they looked a little wobbly.

And I'm pretty sure the 777 was on 28L, while the AC 7M8 was on 28R.

At most airports, a different runway would be far enough away to not have to deal with this.
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Old Dec 8, 2023, 11:27 am
  #4733  
 
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Originally Posted by songsc
At YTZ, ATC usually warns smaller aircrafts if they think they may be affected by the wake turbulence from the larger DH4s. Student pilots are usually advised to abort landing and go around unless they get permission from their instructor onboard.

I wonder if it's instructed by ATC or pilots made the decision in this case. Sometime the landing aircraft is a bit too fast, or the departing aircraft is a bit slow, or the wind changed. Lots of possibilities to be affected by wake turbulence despite following a safe spacing.
ATC will be aware that wake turbulence is possible but obviously cannot see it. They may or may not warn the pilots. Ultimately it is always the pilot's decision to go around and they can abort a landing or takeoff without requesting permission to do so.
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Old Dec 8, 2023, 9:26 pm
  #4734  
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Originally Posted by tracon
AC342 returning to YVR.
Autopilot not working.
Declared emergency because of overweight landing.

https://www.flightradar24.com/ACA342/33086c82

https://www.flightaware.com/live/flight/ACA342
Why return? Surely the pilot could have manually flown the aircraft or have they forgotten how to do that?
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Old Dec 8, 2023, 9:52 pm
  #4735  
 
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Originally Posted by The Lev
Why return? Surely the pilot could have manually flown the aircraft or have they forgotten how to do that?
Pilots are not meant to fly in tightly regulated Class A airspace for 4.5 hours manually. Pilots sometimes manually fly approaches and departures but that’s about all you’ll get. Most airlines have SOPs for when to engage the autopilot. It’s too fatiguing and there’s very little room for error. As soon as you’re a few miles off course or 300 feet vertically from your assigned altitude you’re in some serious crap with transport Canada. This is very easy to do when flying manually for so long with winds, turbulence, etc.

Last edited by TheViperOne; Dec 8, 2023 at 10:01 pm
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Old Dec 9, 2023, 1:14 am
  #4736  
 
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Originally Posted by The Lev
Why return? Surely the pilot could have manually flown the aircraft or have they forgotten how to do that?
Flying in RVSM airspace from 29,000 ft MSL at 29.92 “Hg to 41,000 ft MSL at 29.92 “Hg requires a fully functioning autopilot.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redu...1%2C000%20ft).

To the broader question, there is some over reliance on automation by some pilots, professional and serious amateurs alike.

This presentation is about 26 years old and the production values are very dated but it is still very relevant today.

It is very deep into the weeds, long and completely irrelevant to most pax who aren’t also at least recreational pilots.

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Last edited by YYJ _SLF; Dec 9, 2023 at 2:07 am
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Old Dec 9, 2023, 8:30 am
  #4737  
 
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Originally Posted by TheViperOne
As soon as you’re a few miles off course or 300 feet vertically from your assigned altitude
That is how you end up in Kamchatka.
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Old Dec 16, 2023, 11:34 am
  #4738  
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Probably flown total +4mm (only started flying AC when CDN collapsed) and cannot ever recall on AC until this past Tuesday that really nauseating feeling on short final when you hear the engines roar to life and nose pitches up for go-around.

turns out AC 895 into MXP could not see ground and had to abort, went around & landed on other runway that was wide open so why make approach to rwy that was obviously less accessible?

One time on UA in 1995 into DEN, sitting at back of 727 with engine right over my head. Other TK in 2015 into old IST when landed aircraft had not cleared rwy in time.

I suppose I should count myself lucky so few times but 2023 MXP won’t be forgotten.
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Old Dec 16, 2023, 12:32 pm
  #4739  
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Posts like that make me realize they're much more rare than I thought.

I basically started flying in 2012. I had 4 go arounds on 1 flight in early 2013 (YUL-YTZ diverted to YYZ after that). I had one in later 2013 or 2014. I had one in 2015.

And I'm not sure about since. I stopped considering it to be a rare and unusual experience, so it wouldn't be as prominent a memory.
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Old Dec 16, 2023, 3:23 pm
  #4740  
 
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Originally Posted by canadiancow
Posts like that make me realize they're much more rare than I thought.

I basically started flying in 2012. I had 4 go arounds on 1 flight in early 2013 (YUL-YTZ diverted to YYZ after that). I had one in later 2013 or 2014. I had one in 2015.

And I'm not sure about since. I stopped considering it to be a rare and unusual experience, so it wouldn't be as prominent a memory.
Started flying in 1987, ~400k miles on Canadian, 1.8m miles on AC, have had it happen 2x over thousands of flights...so yeah, pretty rare and unusual.
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