"Somewhat scary one near Winnipeg" - The AC Master Incidents Thread
#4666
Join Date: Jun 2005
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Airlines should prepare for all reasonable eventualities but I'm not sure anyone would have handled accommodating 300 people in a country where you have no permanent presence particularly well. AC should of course reimburse out of pocket expenses for anyone who managed to find their own hotel room but considering many pax would have been stranded airside and the airline would have had no one on the ground besides the air crew to attempt negotiations with the immigration authorities, I don’t really know what else can be done.
#4667
Join Date: May 2023
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Fun cross-over between two current topics: One of the passengers on that Toronto -> Delhi flight required a wheelchair, but Air Canada told the passenger, "You'll have to figure that out yourself".
I'm sure the AC staff on-hand were stressed out enough as it was, but yeah, that's not the right answer.
I'm sure the AC staff on-hand were stressed out enough as it was, but yeah, that's not the right answer.
#4668
Join Date: Dec 2007
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Most major airlines have third party handlers for adhoc flights.There would handle and then bill it to the airlines. Their job is to get hotels and food for the passengers mainly. In my experience normally the immigration authorities are fairly lenient in these situations if the airline hands over the passports to them and they can got to the hotel and when they com back and pick up the passports. `provided of course they do not have visas ton enter.
Last edited by ACYYZ/SD; Oct 25, 2023 at 10:33 am
#4669
Join Date: Jan 2010
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Airlines do not have firm arrangements with third party handlers as you've outlined in the event of an unexpected diversion. I think you overestimate the leniency of immigration authorities as I've experienced this first hand. One should NEVER be separated from their passport and it doesn't work that way.
Lousy situation for all concerned for sure, but people need to understand that in extreme circumstances there are going to be challenging outcomes and manage their expectations accordingly.
#4670
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They are not ground staff, they have not been trained to act as ground staff, and shouldn't be expected to become ground staff if something like this happens. They've just operated the flight this far and probably have a minimum rest time requirement to be able to operate the rescue flight when that plane arrives.
#4671
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Please tell us, what should AC have done instead of what they did or didn't do?
#4672
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#4673
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Would I have been on board, I would have had a hotel already booked by the time the plane landed.
#4674
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Halifax
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Airlines do not have firm arrangements with third party handlers as you've outlined in the event of an unexpected diversion. I think you overestimate the leniency of immigration authorities as I've experienced this first hand. One should NEVER be separated from their passport and it doesn't work that way.
And to tangent off your point, at least if Wendover is to be believed, ETOPS requires not just fancy gear on particular aircraft. If a flight was to divert to the relative friendly location of, say, Dutch Harbor, probabally even before it was wheels down, some replacement flight (with extra catering) would already be taking off from LAX. PAX would have an extra hot meal in them before they landed, and a few hours in a hangar would be an amusing story.
I don't see why AC couldn't contract out to LH or A3 for a similar warm response to flying over central Asia.
#4675
Join Date: Jan 2010
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If someone ever took my passport past their desk, I'd demand to see a consular official, so I agree there.
And to tangent off your point, at least if Wendover is to be believed, ETOPS requires not just fancy gear on particular aircraft. If a flight was to divert to the relative friendly location of, say, Dutch Harbor, probabally even before it was wheels down, some replacement flight (with extra catering) would already be taking off from LAX. PAX would have an extra hot meal in them before they landed, and a few hours in a hangar would be an amusing story.
I don't see why AC couldn't contract out to LH or A3 for a similar warm response to flying over central Asia.
And to tangent off your point, at least if Wendover is to be believed, ETOPS requires not just fancy gear on particular aircraft. If a flight was to divert to the relative friendly location of, say, Dutch Harbor, probabally even before it was wheels down, some replacement flight (with extra catering) would already be taking off from LAX. PAX would have an extra hot meal in them before they landed, and a few hours in a hangar would be an amusing story.
I don't see why AC couldn't contract out to LH or A3 for a similar warm response to flying over central Asia.
#4676
Join Date: Jan 2017
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No. Hours are not the problem. AC (and the industry in general) has had several decades to plan for this. Its a lot safer to land "somewhere between Germany and India" vs "Vancouver and Japan", but never less happy. The industry has managed to address, in addition to safety, something close to comfort, in over the water long haul flights.
#4677
Join Date: Jun 2005
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Airlines do not have firm arrangements with third party handlers as you've outlined in the event of an unexpected diversion. I think you overestimate the leniency of immigration authorities as I've experienced this first hand. One should NEVER be separated from their passport and it doesn't work that way.
It certainly does with that way for passengers who needs visa t enter that country. The Immigration are fairly lenient in these cases where the airlines takes responsibility for the passengers for the hotels in landside and bring them back to board their next flight. I been on all sides and it the airline is involved and takes reponsibiliy normally they are fairly relaxed. There people would all have Canadian visas certainly and not not trying to runaway somewhere.
Every airport has an airline operators committee and they look after all the issues for all the airlines where they operate there or had to do an emergency landing.
#4678
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[...] The Immigration are fairly lenient in these cases where the airlines takes responsibility for the passengers for the hotels in landside and bring them back to board their next flight.
[...]
Every airport has an airline operators committee and they look after all the issues for all the airlines where they operate there or had to do an emergency landing.
[...]
Every airport has an airline operators committee and they look after all the issues for all the airlines where they operate there or had to do an emergency landing.
In places like Kazakhstan? I would not be so sure. Even in Moscow, did you ever fly to Moscow? My expectation would be that no one would care, bureaucracy as usual.
#4679
Join Date: Apr 2016
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I do know that in some countries/airports such companies/organizations exist and I have experienced them firsthand and heard about them secondhand, but they definitely aren’t in every airport and they definitely can’t handle every kind if situation, such as finding hotel rooms for 300 foreigners, or even finding 1000 yoga mats or cardboards in a snowstorm (YVR in 2022), and in some airports no such company exists at all.
I definitely don’t expect AC or any airline to provide hotel rooms and hot meals in every diversion, especially in a foreign country, but I also need to ask, what did AC do, or attempt to do, to help the passengers?
I definitely don’t expect AC or any airline to provide hotel rooms and hot meals in every diversion, especially in a foreign country, but I also need to ask, what did AC do, or attempt to do, to help the passengers?
#4680
Join Date: Mar 2005
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It certainly does with that way for passengers who needs visa t enter that country. The Immigration are fairly lenient in these cases where the airlines takes responsibility for the passengers for the hotels in landside and bring them back to board their next flight. I been on all sides and it the airline is involved and takes reponsibiliy normally they are fairly relaxed. There people would all have Canadian visas certainly and not not trying to runaway somewhere.
Every airport has an airline operators committee and they look after all the issues for all the airlines where they operate there or had to do an emergency landing.
Every airport has an airline operators committee and they look after all the issues for all the airlines where they operate there or had to do an emergency landing.
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/34295151-post4482.html
Ron.