Expiration of Aeroplan Points

Old Oct 17, 07, 1:10 pm
  #1  
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Montreal
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Expiration of Aeroplan Points

Nothing quite like looking ahead 6+ years but I was pondering APs decision to place an expiration date on aeropesos. I wonder how AP will do this? I'm assuming that they now have a date tagged to miles as they post, allowing them to see when they have reached the 7 year expiration date?

The question is, will this information be made available to AP members or will people just log in one day and see that they've lost a few thousand points? The former seems seems only fair but then this is AP we're talking about, right? Also, it might stretch the limits of the IT guys who are already taxing the limits of their abilities

As an aside, I booked a flight to the Maritimes for Christmas via AP for $90 + 15,000 Aeropesos. I just mock-booked the same flights on AC.com and it priced out at $1240! Even playing around with the itin (+/-3 days), the cheapest I could get was $740! And that was a T fare!

So for those of us who knock AP, you still can get some bargains, especially if flying to secondary destination with no competition. Just be prepared to book well in advance.
YLU FF is offline  
Old Oct 18, 07, 10:59 am
  #2  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Programs: Aeroplan
Posts: 3
Aeroplan Suck!!!

If I have a choice, I will never fly Air Canada again! Following are the reasons why:

“ As announced in Oct 2006, Aeroplan has changed its account expiry policy: effective July 01, 2007, Aeroplan Members must have made and continue to make at least one qualifying transaction-either by earning or redeeming miles-every 12 months in order to avoid the closure of their Aeroplan account and expiration of their miles”

Aeoplan first sent an e-mail to me on Nov 2006 for this notice. But I have moved to a different company therefore, that e-mail address is no longer valid. As a result, I was not aware of this new policy.
Aeoplan sent a second e-mail to me on Feb 2007 for this notice, once again, it was sent to the no longer exist e-mail address.

On May 15, 2007 I had received a letter from Mr. David Klein dated May 10, 2007 in regards to “Account expiry policy”. From the moment that I received this letter, I have less than two months to either by earning or redeeming a mile(s) in order to keep my account active.

Nonetheless, I went on a business trip on July 16, 2007 to US. After my trip to the US, I logged into the Aeroplan web site and checked my balance. My balance shows “0” (Zero). I been an Aeroplan member since 1997 and had earned more than 57,000 miles. It took me years to earned 57,000 miles and now it turns to “0”!

Facts:
1) The person that sent e-mails to me is an idiot. If the e-mail address is no longer valid, one would get a “MAIL-DAEMON” failure delivery notice within couple minutes. Why did this idiot keep sending to the wrong e-mail address? My phone # & residential address is still 100% correct.
2) If you have any complain, you can only communicate to the Air Canada Customer Relation by fax @ 1-866-584-0380. The response time is between 15 to 20 business days. Furthermore, I asked to communicate to the manager, I was told this is the highest level one can get. If one can not get the customer service level one’s requested, one is running at the dead end street.
3) Have you ever try to redeem your miles; it took me 4 hrs to reach an operator by keep dialing the same phone numbers every 1 minute by speed dialing. And the phone line was always busy.

In Conclusion:
-I think the “Customer Service Suck”
-I think the “Equipment/Technology Suck”
-I think their staffs are high school drop-outs

I am sure there are lots of people got screwed by their new policy; I am interest for your feedback.
Also, I am planning to launch a web site so that you can voice out your frustration. please stand by.
Sammysllu is offline  
Old Oct 18, 07, 11:10 am
  #3  
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Richmond, BC, Canada
Posts: 1,511
Originally Posted by YLU FF View Post
The question is, will this information be made available to AP members or will people just log in one day and see that they've lost a few thousand points? The former seems seems only fair but then this is AP we're talking about, right? Also, it might stretch the limits of the IT guys who are already taxing the limits of their abilities
Well, I've heard that this info will somehow be conveyed to AP members, but whether it is in a timely and accurate fashion waits to be seen. AA presents you with the following info (from my little used account), perhaps AC could attempt to emulate???

Mileage Summary
Summary Date: Oct 2007

Program to Date Miles: xx,xxx

YTD Elite Qualifying Points: x

YTD Elite Qualifying Miles: x

YTD Elite Qualifying Segments: x

Miles subject to Expiration: xx,xxx

Upgrade Account Balance: x

Total Available Award Mileage + xx,xxx


Of course, the big difference is with AA the "miles" only expire if the account has no activity for 18 months, the individual "miles" aren't date-stamped and are valid forever if there is activity. AP will need to have a much more complex expiration "display" to cover both the "activity" expiry and the "time-stamp" expiry.
robsawatsky is offline  
Old Oct 18, 07, 11:19 am
  #4  
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Richmond, BC, Canada
Posts: 1,511
Originally Posted by Sammysllu View Post
If I have a choice, I will never fly Air Canada again! Following are the reasons why:

...snip

Facts:
1) The person that sent e-mails to me is an idiot. If the e-mail address is no longer valid, one would get a “MAIL-DAEMON” failure delivery notice within couple minutes. Why did this idiot keep sending to the wrong e-mail address? My phone # & residential address is still 100% correct.
2) If you have any complain, you can only communicate to the Air Canada Customer Relation by fax @ 1-866-584-0380. The response time is between 15 to 20 business days. Furthermore, I asked to communicate to the manager, I was told this is the highest level one can get. If one can not get the customer service level one’s requested, one is running at the dead end street.
3) Have you ever try to redeem your miles; it took me 4 hrs to reach an operator by keep dialing the same phone numbers every 1 minute by speed dialing. And the phone line was always busy.

In Conclusion:
-I think the “Customer Service Suck”
-I think the “Equipment/Technology Suck”
-I think their staffs are high school drop-outs

snip...
You eventually received a letter before the miles expired, did you do anything about it?? Isn't it partly your responsibility to update email addresses that are no longer valid?

1. A person didn't send you an email, an automated system did. But, with such a significant program change they should have sent regular mail as well. However, if people don't update their email with AP what is to say AP should presume that physical mail addresses are valid?
2. Yes, communication with AP customer service is bad (this is AP not AC you want to contact by the way).
3. Your method of using repeat speed-dial to get through a queued automatic phone system is wrong, I'm surprised you got through at all. You need to call, put the line on speakerphone (if you have one) and wait for an answer, worst I've ever had is 45 minutes, generally less.

Conclusions:

The first two are generally correct, the last conclusion is not meaningful. However, you didn't help yourself when you had the chance even though the AP changes were distasteful.
robsawatsky is offline  
Old Oct 18, 07, 12:36 pm
  #5  
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I doubt this will affect all but a very few AE members who are moderate travelers, and may only really affect those who've taken a flight or two every year or so and kept collecting and never used them. But since this is a rolling backdating, the churn of miles earned and used will end in a wash for 99.9% of AE members. Perhaps some SEs are earning so many miles and not using them enough to retire those earned 7-years ago. But you're pretty much making a tempest in a teapot about much ado about nothing.

At present, AE factored its "breakage" rate a 17%. That's the number of miles that never get cashed. For accounting purposes, some limitation had to be applied and the industry as a whole has adopted the 7-year rolling backdating.

Most US programs do indicate expiring miles because they've had this in place for a few years. AE will likely add this next year when the first year of the seven starts expiring. But again, I doubt that this will affect very many people, since all inactive accounts will be terminated, and people have been reminded about expiring accounts 6-months in advance, and inactive accounts have mostly been written off.
Shareholder is offline  
Old Oct 18, 07, 1:19 pm
  #6  
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In a 7 yr period a lot of things can happen to this decision and other business T&Cs. Just have to go on a yr-to-yr basis.
dodo is offline  
Old Oct 18, 07, 2:03 pm
  #7  
 
Join Date: May 2005
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Originally Posted by Sammysllu View Post
Also, I am planning to launch a web site so that you can voice out your frustration. please stand by.
Voicing frustration at Aeroplan. I thought that's what Flyertalk's Aeroplan forums was for?
GregWTravels is offline  
Old Oct 18, 07, 2:24 pm
  #8  
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: YUL
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Originally Posted by Sammysllu View Post
If I have a choice, I will never fly Air Canada again! Following are the reasons why:

“ As announced in Oct 2006, Aeroplan has changed its account expiry policy: effective July 01, 2007, Aeroplan Members must have made and continue to make at least one qualifying transaction-either by earning or redeeming miles-every 12 months in order to avoid the closure of their Aeroplan account and expiration of their miles”

Aeoplan first sent an e-mail to me on Nov 2006 for this notice. But I have moved to a different company therefore, that e-mail address is no longer valid. As a result, I was not aware of this new policy.
Aeoplan sent a second e-mail to me on Feb 2007 for this notice, once again, it was sent to the no longer exist e-mail address.

On May 15, 2007 I had received a letter from Mr. David Klein dated May 10, 2007 in regards to “Account expiry policy”. From the moment that I received this letter, I have less than two months to either by earning or redeeming a mile(s) in order to keep my account active.

Nonetheless, I went on a business trip on July 16, 2007 to US. After my trip to the US, I logged into the Aeroplan web site and checked my balance. My balance shows “0” (Zero). I been an Aeroplan member since 1997 and had earned more than 57,000 miles. It took me years to earned 57,000 miles and now it turns to “0”!

Facts:
1) The person that sent e-mails to me is an idiot. If the e-mail address is no longer valid, one would get a “MAIL-DAEMON” failure delivery notice within couple minutes. Why did this idiot keep sending to the wrong e-mail address? My phone # & residential address is still 100% correct.
2) If you have any complain, you can only communicate to the Air Canada Customer Relation by fax @ 1-866-584-0380. The response time is between 15 to 20 business days. Furthermore, I asked to communicate to the manager, I was told this is the highest level one can get. If one can not get the customer service level one’s requested, one is running at the dead end street.
3) Have you ever try to redeem your miles; it took me 4 hrs to reach an operator by keep dialing the same phone numbers every 1 minute by speed dialing. And the phone line was always busy.

In Conclusion:
-I think the “Customer Service Suck”
-I think the “Equipment/Technology Suck”
-I think their staffs are high school drop-outs

I am sure there are lots of people got screwed by their new policy; I am interest for your feedback.
Also, I am planning to launch a web site so that you can voice out your frustration. please stand by.

Hi,,

You might to read the following thread.

"Aeroplan Student Debacle"

Also maybe of some interest..

"What happens if my miles do expire?"

"Good news! Effective October 16, 2006, expired miles are
eligible for reinstatement up to 7 years following the last
accumulation or redemption transaction in the account,
whichever is later. You may reinstate a portion or
all of your expired miles for an administrative fee
of C$30 plus C$0.01 per mile reinstated (plus any applicable taxes).
Reinstated miles will be available for redemption for 7
years from the date of reinstatement as long as you remain active in the program."(Statement from the student thread from another poster).

Thanks.
getaround is offline  
Old Oct 18, 07, 2:45 pm
  #9  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: YOW
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Originally Posted by Shareholder View Post
I doubt this will affect all but a very few AE members who are moderate travelers
I beg to differ. In our family: dd will use her almost 100K miles next summer for honeymoon (but only if she gets her act together, which is unlikely but not AP's fault.)

Ds has used 50K of his on Future Shop and will probably use the remainder on that or short hauls to NYC if I can land a long-term trip there (to give him a free place to sleep.) Or to take his girlfriend in J to SFO (family there so he can stay for free.)

Both kids know they need to use their points up soon if they want to be able to get the regular awards rates. I see availability being an issue once we are within three years of the expiration date of the 'old' miles. Once that bulge is gone, then expiration won't really be an issue any more.

Dh and I have almost 1,000,000 between us to use up. But, we travel for our business. Even when we aren't reimbursed (i.e. industry conferences) we have no choice on dates therefore points tickets represent poor value compared to a revenue seat. So it will be hard to use up our miles unless we 'waste' them on some frivolous Classic Plus trip.

And it is hard to want to travel for pleasure when we are away so much of the time anyway. If we want a holiday away, we just tack it onto a business trip and don't have to pay for airfare.

So I foresee we'll have a harder time using up the miles. I'm sure a lot of the SEs also travel so much that they don't want to travel (even if their family is with them) when they can stay at home and relax. So going through the miles will be difficult for a lot of people.

On the other hand, should Aeroplan offer an upgrade option (i.e. 25,000 miles to upgrade to business class in NA, 40K to Europe) I'd burn through my miles in no time flat. I don't drink, have lounge access and short lineups due to my status, but I love the legroom up front and that is worth using my points for.

Fortunately, there are members like Sammysllu who have let their points expire (and you did, you could have bought something at Home Hardware, Petrocan or any other partner and kept those miles but you chose to let them expire despite receiving 6 weeks notice.) So that will help reduce the number of miles to be used up. For that, I'm thankful since that gives me a better shot at seats to use my miles.
KathrynInCanada is offline  
Old Oct 21, 07, 6:12 pm
  #10  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Programs: AC 35K Marriott Gold
Posts: 21
agree with you Kathryn.....I used up all the points last year on gift cards and bought about $ 5000 worth of stuff which is worth $ 10,000 pre tax so that was good. I am back up to 233,000 points but will hold on to them if we do want to fly. But I am like you, sick of flying by the time I get on vacation and now with 3 kids under 5 years old, no way!!

People that come on and whine they didnt know or got caught last minute trying to redeem dont really get my sympathy.
Cdnflyer68 is offline  
Old Oct 22, 07, 6:37 am
  #11  
BOH
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
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Programs: IC Hotels Spire, BA Gold
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Expring Miles

Anyone know the current rules for when AP miles expire?

I seem to remember that AP introduced a rule that they would expire after a period with no activity, either earn or spend. How long is this?

But I also seem to remember this rule was possibly going to be relaxed for overseas, ie non-Canada accounts. Is this true?

Thanks!
BOH is offline  
Old Oct 22, 07, 7:54 am
  #12  
 
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The account goes dormant after a year of inactivity and the miles expire 7 years after being accumulated.
Academic is offline  
Old Oct 22, 07, 8:01 am
  #13  
BOH
 
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Originally Posted by Academic View Post
The account goes dormant after a year of inactivity and the miles expire 7 years after being accumulated.
Thanks, what does "dormant" mean in this context though? Can the account be re-activated, ie miles added to or does it get locked and nothing more can be credited?
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Old Oct 22, 07, 8:52 am
  #14  
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend and Moderator: Air Canada Aeroplan, Canada & Manufactured Spending
 
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Originally Posted by BOH View Post
Thanks, what does "dormant" mean in this context though? Can the account be re-activated, ie miles added to or does it get locked and nothing more can be credited?
Have you bothered to check at Aeroplan.com?

Question:
How can I make sure my Aeroplan miles do not expire?
Answer:
When you stay active in Aeroplan, you make sure that your Aeroplan Miles don’t expire. All it takes is one transaction every 12 months to keep your account active


http://www.aeroplan.com/help/topic.do?id=1004

Expired as is dead, passed away, gone, closed and miles forfeited back to the airline, though they make you an offer to sell them back to you if you inquire as to why your miles are deceased.

Last edited by tcook052; Oct 22, 07 at 9:04 am
tcook052 is offline  
Old Oct 22, 07, 9:04 am
  #15  
BOH
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
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Originally Posted by tcook052 View Post
Have you bothered to check at Aeroplan.com?

Question:
How can I make sure my Aeroplan miles do not expire? Answer:
When you stay active in Aeroplan, you make sure that your Aeroplan Miles don’t expire. All it takes is one transaction every 12 months to keep your account active, and you have a full 7 years from the time you accumulate the miles to redeem them for a reward.


http://www.aeroplan.com/help/topic.do?id=1004
Thanks, yes I did but clearly did not look hard enough

But how about the waiver for these rules for AP members whose account is registered overseas - or was this just a myth?.
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