Experiences on refurbished 767's
 

Now that the XM 767's are in service on international flights, I thought a new thread was in order to discuss people's experiences. I recently flew on the daytripper YYZ-LHR (December 22nd) in J. I'm not sure of the fin #, sorry. I discussed my experiences with a well known LHR concierge and he concurred that my experiences were similar to others he has spoken to.

Here's my list of good and bad:

- FA's have no training at all on the new seats, which is inconvenient enough on a normal flight, but none of them in J could tell a pax where the life vest was without asking another pax and then searching for it on another non-functioning pod. Not exactly a warm fuzzy feeling from a safety perspective. I've since learned that the FA's were given a manual of the new seats/interiors so part of the blame it sounds like lays on their shoulders.

- I'm 6'2, 200 lbs and found the seat to be very restrictive. My shoulders cover the width of the pod and there wasn't a lot of elbow room. Overall it's just not a comfortable fit and I'd take a J 330 or 767 single seat anyday over the new design. On my return flight I was on a 330 in J and the biggest difference I noticed is just the feeling of space. The 'pod' feels cramped, constrictive, and closed in.

- I admitedly avoided the tempation of trying the lay-flat seat since for me the whole point of taking the daytripper is to sleep when arriving in London. Looking at the length though, I'm guessing that there would be some curling/bending required to get my frame to fit.

- There is virtually no space to store anything that won't fit in the magazine holders unless you use the space where the air vents are behind the seat or use the floor. They announced once and reminded us all in person not to block these vents.

- Several seats had non-functioning items, including mine. Mine and 3 adjacent seats had non-functioning reading lights, flight attendant call buttons, and head-rest adjustment buttons. There were several complaints I heard from others about other problems such as AVOD's not working.

- You have to be somewhat of a contortionist to look out the window for any extended period of time. This proved rather annoying while circling over London for several minutes watching the dozens upon dozens of other planes circling above and descending into the London fog.

- With no community video screens the FA's have to do the safety demo themselves, which is almost comical these days with them being so out of practice. It frankly seems unprofessional and archaic nowadays for the FA's to have to do this.

- Taking off feels rather odd with the seats being at about a 45 degree angle to the thrust. Instead of the seat supporting your back during take-off, your shoulder rests against the plastic side of the pod. I saw most people trying to adjust and find some way to put more pressure on their seat during take-off.

- Again, it seems rather unbelievable that the FA's aren't aware of the new pods' features. The in-charge several times went to an open seat to figure out how somerthing was supposed to work. No one that I saw ever did figure out how to turn on the reading lamp on the side of the pod.

- The herringbone seating seems to leave people staring at one another at 45 degree angles, especially if in the middle of J. Right in my forward line of sight was actor Rade Serbedzija (Snatch/The Saint) and I'm sure he thought I was staring at him the entire flight.

- Carrying on any sort of conversation with a companion or other pax is virtually impossible. I found it ironic how in some marketing picture I recall seeing it shows a pax sitting on the foot rest speaking to another pax, but yet there is a warning sign above the foot rest prohibiting this very act. It's also ironic that SE's must now travel on points on the same flight for AE international J, yet they won't really be able to talk while on the flight.

- This is just a pet-peeve I have of all the new AVOD's, but I hate that there is no news broadcast and no in-flight map. Also if "these features are not currently installed" take them off the damn on-screen menu.

- The power outlet kept shutting off after a few seconds when I plugged in my laptop AC adapter. Finally after several minutes of playing around with the plug-in I managed to make it work.

- I almost forgot the good: the cabin definitely looks and feels new, modern and clean.

- The sleeping bag style white blanket is a nice touch.

- The table is quite large and manoevers easily and the AVOD screen seems bigger than the 320's/175's. Discussion in the other site mentioned that perhaps it would be big enough for 2 people, but I doubt this. The table stores neatly in the side of the pod below the AVOD display.

- Not related to the the J seats, a Y pax oxygen mask deployed during take-off.

Overall if I was AC management I would be embarassed at the number of problems encountered in J with the new seats and the lack of training of the FA's. I don't know when this plane rolled out of the XM hangar, but there seemed to be far too many problems with it for it to be in service. I felt sorry for the FA's apologizing to so many people for them "still working out the bugs" with the new interiors. Given these problems and the decreased room of the pod I will defintely try to avoid the new planes for international flights while I still can. For those travelling in J with companions, I would avoid them like the plague unless you don't care to chat with them during the flight.

Don't you hate being a "beta tester" for AC ?

I dislike the pod concept for all the reasons you mentioned. There was nothing wrong with the previous seating ergonomics.

Your description reminds me of when I first flew F on BA when they first got their new seats. The most important feature was the fact that I felt more more privacy. It will just take some time in getting use too.

Although, I see no reason why AC can not develop a J specific video regarding safety. I know when I have travelled on BA they show a video specific to each cabin.

And very concerning that FA's are not familiar with basic seat functions never mind safety/emergency :eek:

The new safety demo will function with a future upgrade of the new AVOD system. I'm happy to say that the manual safety demo is not a permanent feature.

I just got back from a super quick MR to LHR as well. Flight 869 today was swapped to a refurb (FIN 634 IIRC). It was supposed to be the usual 1x2x2.

Crew was Toronto based and seemed to know the refurb quite well. One pax had an issue with her seat and she switched to another, and then another. Other than that, no real issues with the seats.

I like the green/red light signals on top of the slanted rim of the pod that tells the FAs if the seat is in its full upright position.

I had no problems with my laptop plugging into the Empower 110V outlet.

If you're lying down and can't touch the AVOD screen, you can use the little knob joystick on the control that works like a mouse pointer on the screen, but it's a little stiff - I guess because it's new.

FAs had to hand out the two-to-one prong converter since the jack was one pronged (and AC was still handing out the cheap noise reduction headphones with the two prongs).

I agree with mostly everything that luv2flyJ is saying. I even thought of the exact same things while seated.. I guess its stuff us FFs ponder :D

Even with its "downsides", so to speak, these downsides are minimal compared to the overall improvement with XM. Sleek, modern, clean, chic..

All the J pax were impressed. Heck, the Y pax were impressed with their seats too (I kept on hearing comments like "wow, this is super nice" from the back :) ).

Overall, I'd take this refurb over anything else in the fleet.. even a 333 or 345, although I'd be quite happy with that as well :) (of course, we're talking about J here ;) )

Good.. it seems tacky now with the FAs doing it manually :D

On that note, the crew of 869 today was amazing. Kudos to the IC.

Believe me, they agree! Glad to hear you had a great flight!

dang... quite comprehensive :)

i was lamenting how i didn't bring my digicam, but i thought "someone will post something on FT that will go above and beyond what i would ever do"

and i was right :D

Doing a last minute MR?

You won't need it.

:cool: :p

It was a last second decision -- I know I'll be doing personal travel in 2007 to at least get me 2008 Elite, so I figured I should accomplish it while still a SE :)

Great job! ^

So do the FA's make your bed for you on the refurb planes in J?

As IF. You know they would be complaining to union brass.

They do it on BA (F) and LH (F) from personal experience.

Unlike Virgin and Air New Zealand, where the crew needs to turn the seat into a bed, the new AC seats simply recline into a bed, eliminating the need to call the crew every time you're ready for a few zzz's.