My first flight on AC in 22 months – (Long Post!)
 

I was debating whether to post this back in July 2006 but in light of the changes to Aeroplan announced, coupled with Ken’s post (my bold) on the “Aeroplan announces two program changes” thread I decided to post this. (I apologize for the long post)

From http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showt...&page=13&pp=15

When AP/AC (I make no distinction between the two as to me, one works closely with each other as I’ve been told), started to make changes to AP, I took it as writing on the wall that AC and AP do not care about loyalty because AC perceives itself as the only game in town – and honestly, in some cases they are as in the our FT colleague in YSB.

In 2002 to 2004 I was both SE and 1K on UA. The reason I started to split the 200k plus I fly was I believed AC/AP tipped their hand when they first made the changes to the upgrade certificate policy (remember SE can only upgrade 72 hours prior to departure. The uproar changed that to 7 days). With AC’s thought of a captive audience that AC is going to make the changes they feel – and they have.

I too made some decisions then. After asking many times about lifetime Gold status I kept getting responses from JB (Rupert’s EA), BC (no longer at AC), and SD (BC’s replacement) that “we are looking at a program”, “We plan to reward our long-time SEs”, “AC has to approve anything we offer and we are in discussion” yada yada yada.

But lifetime status was just one as aspect. Add to this the vileness that was directed to me at the airport during the AC/CP transition but the kicker was the in the year I accumulated 250k, AC cancelled a flight and basically told me to and cancel my vacation (the first one in 16 months). Later I found that AC/AP failed to follow their own rule CIC*77 – So much for Loyalty to AC. (I ended up booking on AA)

And another point was seeing how difficult it was for my wife to redeem miles as an Elite to visit me or just to travel to visit her family in Canada (Northern Ontario) let alone her family in Norway. It has lead to have her accumulate to over 750k miles that she cannot easily redeem. (As an aside…that will change as next week she will be SE for the first time).

So in October 2004 I vowed that AC will be last carrier of choice for revenue tickets. I could see the writing on the wall. So much so that I believe it was in 2003 I cancelled my wife’s and mine Aerogold for RBC’s AAdvantage Visa knowing that I was going to leave AC.

I’ve gone from flying exclusively AC (I even flew them from LHR to DUS many many years ago instead of taking BA/LH!) to not flying them at all.

Now, so many people say that and I hear it at the airport all the time when a pax gets upset. I’m a soft spoken person who will not raise their voice too loud by will follow though on actions. I personally believe if I’m going to talk the talk, I better walk the walk.

Excluding an IROPS where I was protected onto AC (my ORD-YOW on UA went belly up and I was involuntarily reroute through ORD UA YYZ AC YOW). The first flight where I consciously purchased a ticket for a AC flight was for travel in July 2006 – 22 months after I vowed to have AC last on my list. I was flying from FLL-YVR (client site to my new home where I was flying back every two weeks to handle my move from YYZ to YVR). My AC flight on that trip was from SEA-YVR. One thing was I made sure it as a UA flight number as I wanted some portion of the revenue to go to UA. My return to FLL also required an AC flight from YVR-SEA. This has been my only flight (ex the IROPS) on AC in the past two years.

And with the recent changes I am so glad that I fly UA. Like yyzprincess I too am closing in on Star Gold Lifetime status. As of this morning I am a little over 517,000 Lifetime status miles on UA (BIS). With my new client starting next week, I will be traveling Monday-Friday from YVR-RDU. I’ll be working on a 37 country rollout. It will be a 250k – maybe 300k - year in 2007. I suspect that I will be lifetime sometime in 2008.

And how is life on UA? Like any carrier it has its ups and down – just like AC. But how those ups and downs are handled makes a difference. With AC – I miss the concierges. After 7 years of SE I really enjoyed their assistance when I needed it.

However in YYZ the ladies (and guys!) of UA have treated me just as well as the concierge. They know who I am and recognize my wife and help her along as well. I’m only now beginning to know the UA staff in YVR.

There was one particular incident that showed me the difference between AC and UA. A flight from SEA to FLL (I drove from SEA to YVR instead of flying on AC), my upgraded seat was confirmed from SEA to ORD however the flight was cancelled the day before. UA called me and booked me on another flight but since there was no upgrade inventory left, booked me in F class. When I asked why – the response was we gave you upgrade and it’s our fault that your flight will not leave on time and we will not take away the upgrade from our most frequent fliers (as a 1K). Another time, on one segment from SFO to DEN the flight was down-guaged from a 767 to a 757. I had a confirmed upgrade that was confirmed 100 hours out as a 1K. I was downgraded but then given a regional (North America, Central America and Hawaii) upgrade, valid for 1 year, confirmed at time of booking valid on any fare.

AC lost me and my employees in 2004. The recent changes are now impacting mrs sing-along who will be SE next week. She too is dismayed with the changes. I’ve received calls from a few friends and they are no longer hard core flyers but they have an Aerogold. They are now evaluating whether to keep their credit card and have asked me for assistance on which program they should move to.

IMO, AC has lost its focussed. They are now more interested in dealing with the analysts on the quarterly reports and their concern with book liability than running a Loyalty program for frequent fliers.

I wish them luck, unfortunately, I won't be on the ride.

Eloquently put. Hopefully at some point AC/AE will regain a focus on the frequent flyer. Presently we seem to be on the downwards part of that curve.

AC is the airline that Canadians (continue to) love to hate. I'm sorry to hear about your negative experiences, and based on them I certainly understand and respect your choices. I would probably also be with UA if I went through similar issues.

However, in my case I have overwhelmingly had positive flight experiences with AC, and since I will be hitting SE next week, any weakness in the AC frequent flyer program for mid-tier members (Elites) will no longer be an issue. I prefer Air Canada's inflight service to any other NA carrier, and the Air Canada lounges are in a league of their own relative to NA competition (95% of my travel is NA based). Add to this the conveniance and upgradability of AC's flight passes and the fleet renewal program which will completely revitalize AC's aircraft in 2007/2008.

On a positive note, I think your spouse will be happy with SE status next year assuming she values Air Canada's instant KK feature, which makes AC's top tier status an industry leader.

Good luck in 2007.

SG

Nicely put ... That separates you from the majority here who simply complain about this and that and never take action.

The marketplace will always rule ... There are choices. Your professional / financial situation may be different from others on this board but I wish I had the resolve and ability to select who I fly with every time!

Wow, This makes my paltry little business for AC seem quite meek!

At least I am in good company jumping ship.

Good for you, and for the other SEs, but what is a lowly E like me (with about 60k this year so far) who flies almost exclusively within Canada and to Europe, but not within the US, supposed to do? UA doesn't do much for me in that case. I suppose LH Miles and More could be an option, but I hardly ever fly in paid J.

So well SAID!

I also bailed from AC... wrote a letter at the time to RM and he could not have cared... that year I flew over 200K BIS with AC...

in the last 12 months UA has got great business from me... company employees have also switched to UA... so this year alone thats over 40 tickets to Asia.

I still keep AC E status alive... I sometimes wonder why... so in the next 3 weeks I have two flight to Asia, with AC. IN CONFIRMED J.

For me flying is about upgrades, at that UA rocks... if you do miss an upgrade there is E+, and exit row, something unheard of at AC.

PS the staff of UA in YYZ is 12 Concierge agents.... each one will do anything to help a 1K. Thats the only part of AC I miss, the great concierge staff... however they still know me, and help...whenever its required.
AC has come a long way since I left, in terms of staff....... they still have a huge amount of broken planes....[2008 is a long way away] but upper management still does silly things... like cutting 45,000 SSWU.... was that done, just to piss customers off?

Anyhow with the cuts to AC program in 2007 some people in Sudbury will still have no choice but to fly AC. I am lucky, I can choose, and did.

PS Sing-a-long I have way more years to go I have only 310,000 lifetime UA miles... ;) I am not sure how important that is... but its a nice perk. I still stop collecting UA miles at 100k and park in other programs.

I am long-time AC lurker, and have finally decided to plunge into the world of flyer talk.
Sing- along’s post I believe is one of the most insightful posts on flyer talk in a long time. Many believe that current senior management is all consumed with managing on a short term quarterly basis, and therefore only making decisions that make financial analysts happy. However I suspect these decisions are having a negative impact on both our customers and employees. I hope that with the conclusion of the IPO, management can regain its focus, get back to customer driven policies, and attract people like sing-along back.. If we do this we should grow the business and ultimately please the financial analysts.

Welcome to FT posting.

I believe management's focus is on profitability, and that is actually a refreshing change from the 1990s, when the only time AC actually made money was during brief periods when the market was unbelievably hot - that would last maybe one summer - or when the airline sold assets, usually older aircraft. In the 1990s, the airline accumulated a lot of debt on new aircraft, and that exposed it to CCAA when first Sept 11 and then SARS hit its business. There is nothing more abusive to employees and to a lesser extent customers than CCAA or Chapter 11 experience where you wonder whether your points or cash ticket will be honored. The planes get no attention beyond the basics required for safety, and employee attitudes are soured because they are distracted by their future and the demands being made on them. It is not an experience to be repeated.

Since coming out of CCAA with what appears to be a well-thought out business plan, ACE has raised over $1.8 billion of debt and equity - including the money it hopes to raise off selling a stake in AC. The value of its assets, previously seriously underestimated or ignored by the market, have soared. ACE's remaining stake in Aeroplan could be worth close to the $2 billion it proposes to distribute to ACE shareholders, and JAZZ and ACTS now have a value previously unheard of. That, in turn, has enabled AC to order 75 narrowbody and 32 widebody aircraft plus options, and to begin, albeit belatedly, the refurbishing of the existing fleet. There is equity going on to every new aircraft AC acquires except for a handful being acquired on full operating leases. This is a much better situation than the 100% debt financings and operating leases AC did to bring in new aircraft between 1997 and 2003.

Today, AC looks stable and has a reasonable mid-term future.

Let me point out some of the things that have happened in the past two years that affect the entire customer base.

-New fare grid, with one-way pricing, no fences like Saturday stayovers
-Lower overall pricing versus pricing earlier in this decade
-In 2007 and 2008, 45 new aircraft will be added to the fleet (28 Embraers and 17 777s)
-by June 2008, all existing aircraft, including the 330s and 345s, are to get new interiors; yes, things have fallen behind schedule but now that the new interiors are Transport Canada-certified and some supplier issues have been resolved, aircraft will be refurbished at a much faster rate.
-Flight passes - they're not for everybody, but for those they suit, they are excellent
-New routes launched or pending: YYZ-Seoul, YYZ-Shanghai, YYZ-Beijing, YYZ-Lima, YYZ-Bogota, YUL-Rome, YVR-Shanghai, YYZ-Hong Kong, separate LHR nonstops for YHZ and YYT, YEG-LHR... numerous new services and added frequencies within North America, and more likely next year with all of those Embraers. Also likely: YYZ-LAX-SYD and YVR-Guangzhou.

I understand what some FFs say about the state of the airline from their standpoint, and I accept it as fact. You had benefits that you believe you no longer have, and other airlines - at least for now - give you more upgrades in particular, although I believe one has to be exceeedingly naive to think that as the industry continues to consolidate that those airlines will not tighten their policies. With the ongoing rumors of a merger between UA and either DL or CO, I'd hate to see where MP benefits go in the event of a significant consolidation/rationalization without which I am not sure UA is viable even with its Chapter 11 restructuring.

AC has decided that with new J suites coming, and with its ability to fill aircraft generally, that it wants more full J passengers in J suites, which is good business. There is a lot of churn among frequent flyers but I don't believe it's because AC doesn't realize or anticipate the consequences of its changes. It expect to lose some, gain others, and shift others to a different kind of loyalty based on revenue rather than mileage because revenue is a truer measure of loyalty to a company that decides it will be profitable.

So God bless you if you have left, I hope UA or DL is good to you, although I really wonder why you bother posting about decisions you took 12, 24 or 36 months ago. If it's so green over in those other pastures, you should be content, even smug with your decision and never see the need to rationalize it.

(P.S., if UA doesn't make a decent profit in the third quarter results expected any day now, I wouldn't be too comfortable about its long-term future.)

AE/AC's new approach to "Loyalty" is actually something quite reflective of a major change in values which does have a definite dividing line between those of us who grew up pre-1960s and those after that. We older folks define loyalty in a very different way than those who are in the 30s and 40s, and who for the most part are graduates of MBA schools and now running major NAmerican corporations. To them, we are consumers and our loyalty is the dollars spent. To the earlier generation of managers, we were customers and loyalty went beyond the purchase. There can be no other explanation for the .... that elites in AE have been experiencing year-after-year. And what now has been dumped, arrogantly, on all AE collectors.

AE/AC's loyalties are solely to those who put their money up front for passes, and to Bay Street who insists on lowering any liability on outstanding AE miles in fear of a slippage in Breakage. (And yes, to us share/unitholders.) This is also clear by the refusal to acknowledge "lifetime" elite status among those who've been AE members since the program started in the mid-1980s and who've held some elite status every year this has been offered.

I would very much like to "walk the talk" and dump AC but I fly domestic primarily now, and I don't see WS as an alternative because I do like my creature comforts...which I still get as an Elite/STARGold. When I fly transborder or international, I will try to find an alternative STAR or ONEWORLD carrier, balanced by the annual need to requalify for Elite on AC and at least a first elite tier in another program... I will fly an AC overseas flight to burn off my SSWUs, or SWUs, or use the former for a NAmerican upgrade at some point.

All this will be good for AC/AE's bottom line, but the real bottom line is that there is no such thing as Loyalty as a common shared value definition. There is a great divide between us old fogies, and these young turks! But in this it only reflects our wider societal values.

Thanks Sebring. Eloquent and right on the money!

DF

Famous last words. We Elites too once had instant kk for both business and economy at regular award levels (not double points) and that was taken away from us. Don't think for a moment any particular benefits are safe for any tier AE members.

I don't like it much either, but cash IS the new proxy for loyalty. To the extent that we understand that and use that to our advantage we will make it through until the pendulum swings back towards the values you write about. In the meantime, we as consumers need to do our own valuations and look at the most advantageous combination of fare, flixibility and benefits.

The only talk that really needs walking in my opinion is "every flyer for him/herself" and to the creative go the spoils. Pining for anything else will only get you frustrated!

DF

An always eloquent post from sing-along, who I had the pleasure of meeting once on a YYZ-ORD flight, based solely on some very "gauche" FlyerTalk tags on my carry on bag :D

I am 1P on UA and SE on AC. I have had good and bad experiences with both airlines, and certainly appreciate the NA upgrade program on UA/DL/CO/etc., although as I am mostly flying Latitude fares due to frequently changing itineraries, I rarely miss an upgrade on AC anyway.

In times of trouble, though, AC has taken MUCH better care of me than UA. I can think of many, many times that I have been stranded or dismissed at ORD, by rude agents in RDU, by people in PHL not serving the F line for 30 minutes, etc. Other than the occasional snarly ground agent, ground service, concierges, SE line, etc. has generally been far better at AC. In-air service in terms of the FAs themselves is more or less the same at all NA airlines.

But as others have pointed out, this may just be the first shoe to drop amongst NA airlines. Can the US airline industry survive with all of those major legacy carriers giving away the farm? It seems likely not. There will be consolidation, and if there are new investors, in the quarter to quarter game the stock market demands, there is likely to be a similar tightening of benefits, freebies, and otherwise south of the border.

Nevertheless, it is always refreshing to know that someone like sing-along can "speak softly". It gets points across so much better than the screechy din one can sometimes hear.

Simon

Not to mention good for your share ownership... and that's the bottom line. More loyalty than in the past to shareholders who routinely got abused by AC. I think that's healthy for the airline's long-term future. At times, Shareholder, I have been an AC shareholder, and the only time I really made decent money was when the shareholders were given leverage by a takeover threat. I think you will agree that that is not a healthy situation, that it is better to have an airline that can make money from operations and reward shareholders out of earnings rather than have the unions appropriate every nickel of profit for themselves.