Pilots vote "NO" to 787s and 777s

Old Jun 19, 2005, 11:50 am
  #76  
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Originally Posted by negotiator
Parnel,

You don't make any sence (i.e. the Company should not move on its agreement as the problem is an internal union one).

By it's very definition this is an internal problem and therefore it's incumbant on AC executive to attempt any, and all, solutions to get what the need (the Boeings) for the Company, it's emplyees, it's shareholders and, the PAX.

Its spelled "SENSE" by the way

Internal union problems should be resolved by the membership not the company. You are asking the Company to cave in and make the chauvinists in the union look good so they can do it again come contract time. Its simply time this union pays the price for its stupidity and arrogance.

In a free market economy where there are many more qualified job seekers than jobs available there should be open hiring and no protection for seniority. This union has created an artifical barrier to real costs and its time they fully understand it.
AC can find a solution if they want to go around the unions and get really dirty but my sense is they are going to let them wallow in their own dirt for awhile. And that is the best approach right now; consistent management of operating costs until the union gets its message that they no longer dictate the terms of employment.
AC negotiated in good faith with the union and struck an agreement that must have made sense to the union executive as they strongly recommended it get ratified so its obvious there is no common sense left among a large contingent of pilots including the ones who abstained from the vote. Its too bad the union execeutive does not have the balls to force the issue among their members and maybe some polling among the total group might yield some results that will allow them to do that. The pilots want the new aricraft as badly or more so than AC because it will give a lot of quick promotions to junior pilots once the planes are all delivered.
If they are simply all hotheads like our MTacchi then I can see the problem more clearly.

Last edited by parnel; Jun 19, 2005 at 11:52 am
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Old Jun 19, 2005, 11:54 am
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Originally Posted by negotiator
By it's very definition this is an internal problem and therefore it's incumbant on AC executive to attempt any, and all, solutions to get what the need (the Boeings) for the Company, it's emplyees, it's shareholders and, the PAX.
And you accuse parnel of not making sense?
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Old Jun 19, 2005, 11:54 am
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Originally Posted by blue2002
Not most... just the Strangers among us
You mean as in STRANGER than fiction
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Old Jun 19, 2005, 12:04 pm
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http://yahoo.reuters.com/financeQuot...n199605_newsml

here is another press release where AC clearly says they will not buy the 3 777's but will re address the 787 situation at a later date. So, my read of this is tha they will go out and buy some used 763's to show their intent to not be cowed by the union and wait them out on the other planes or go back to AB which would be sad in a way.The union cannot win this match and its set and game point right now.
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Old Jun 19, 2005, 12:08 pm
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Originally Posted by parnel
... So, my read of this is tha they will go out and buy some used 763's ...
I see some more 343-500's on the way also.
 
Old Jun 19, 2005, 12:13 pm
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Originally Posted by LeSabre74
PS, why would someone suggest firing the ex-CAIL pilots, when it appears they were in favour of the deal
As the only way to make the Original Air Canada Pilots (TM) truly happy. Sarcasm on my part
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Old Jun 19, 2005, 12:30 pm
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Originally Posted by parnel
http://yahoo.reuters.com/financeQuot...n199605_newsml

here is another press release where AC clearly says they will not buy the 3 777's but will re address the 787 situation at a later date. So, my read of this is tha they will go out and buy some used 763's to show their intent to not be cowed by the union and wait them out on the other planes or go back to AB which would be sad in a way.The union cannot win this match and its set and game point right now.

does the order cancellation bring as much hope to airbus being a part of the AC fleet renewal plan as the media suggests?
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Old Jun 19, 2005, 12:50 pm
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Originally Posted by parnel

The pilots want the new aricraft as badly or more so than AC because it will give a lot of quick promotions to junior pilots once the planes are all delivered.

Its spelled 'Aircraft' by the way!

Cheers
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Old Jun 19, 2005, 1:03 pm
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Originally Posted by negotiator



Its spelled 'Aircraft' by the way!

Cheers
that was a typo...you have been spelling "sense" as "sence" all along since you've been here and was a gesture to show you haven't any, since you cannot spell it.
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Old Jun 19, 2005, 1:06 pm
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Originally Posted by dky
does the order cancellation bring as much hope to airbus being a part of the AC fleet renewal plan as the media suggests?
I think AC will play it up to further show the pilots who is boss but in reality if the pilots had any common sense they would vote for the aircraft with the lowest costs to operate as that would bode well for the company to make more money and possibly have more money for employee raises.
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Old Jun 19, 2005, 2:37 pm
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Doh!

Speechless. Too bad. Just too bad.

The Boeing order was a real confidence booster for Air Canada, it's customers and it's staff.

I might wait until Monday afternoon to buy ACE stock.....

(P.S. I feel sorry for the Boeing salesperson)
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Old Jun 19, 2005, 2:57 pm
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Another question that comes to mind is what will happen with the 767 seat retrofit that was part of the Boeing program.
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Old Jun 19, 2005, 4:06 pm
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While an A330 is cheaper then a 777 to purchase (and more expensive then a 787), if AC needed givebacks to afford a Boeing fleet renewal, I imagine they'd need em for an Airbus fleet renewal, as well. Then, of course, you have to take into effect the operating efficiencies the 777 has over the A340 and the 787 has over the A330/767.

As for the 767, Boeing did create a new interior for the 767-400 which can be installed in the 767-300s.
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Old Jun 19, 2005, 4:30 pm
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What a shame.
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Old Jun 19, 2005, 4:45 pm
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Originally Posted by SEA_Tigger
NH can use their 787s to launch new Japan-Canada service (again, depending on route authorities) which would put additional pressure on AC's international ops.
NH, currently and before their *A entry have always codeshared with AC. They are so cosy with each other that a few NH FA's used to fly on AC's Japan operations. Truly a sight to have seen.
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