WR Cage

Probably two press releases were prep'd on Friday

1) Confirming the order.
2) Rejecting the order.

Watch for ACPA to fall apart over this issue. Not completely fall apart like Parnel would like. But enough that something good will come out of this. Maybe the A350 is back on the table.

I have also heard that there are more A330 delivery slots available in 2006 that could replace the 777 deliveries. Sebring, care to comment.

parnel

I would agree that something good could come out of this...but not in the manner you expect. I could see ACE look to form another carrier that is strictly International and not incorporated in Canada that bypasses the current union relationship. This company would inherit routes or buy them from AC.
They would then invite the pilots to join or not under terms set by the company.

Union thuggery should never ever determine the business plan of an airline or any company for that matter.

Q Shoe Guy

I don't think the routes are "AC's", as they are government allocated (most recently the China routes) , so this buy/sell idea isn't plausible. This is also an intra-union problem, and they seem to be hung up on sticking it to each other from the past award(after the merger). I wonder where ACPLT is to comment on this. Woe the long suffering customers that will have to endure those tired cabins for even longer, as I would assume the 763 refurbishment is out the window too (as it was part of the purchase agreement).

Overwing

Or maybe this isnt so much about sticking it to a colleague, as it is about shedding light on a very serious problem that is definately still there and not going away anytime soon ??

Overwing

ACPA will not fall apart over this, ACPA endorsed this deal and it was tossed back by the membership.

The A330 is not the aircraft that AC needs more of right now, The B763 is better than the A330 for what AC is trying to do. Range is the issue.

Q Shoe Guy

Would you please be so kind as to shed some light on this "serious" problem? This is a very near-sighted(hate to use myopic) response IMO (not yours, the pilots).

greywolf

Well that just makes my weekend. I can't stand the A340 in comparison to the 777.

Stranger

Kind of funny that you keep getting at unions "thugs" after this. When your thug friends actually agreed with the AC management thugs, but it was their membership that turned against the deal.

What does that tell us, really? Seems to me your friend Milton has a serious people problem ahead of himself. Don't you think he tried screwing his employees one time too many? Wonderful business plan, right? Or perhaps he overplayed his hand just a tiny bit? Perhaps he is not anywhere near as wonderful as a CEO as some of you guys let yourself be brainwashed into believing?

Yes, cost-cutting is important. But making sure your employees have reasonably good feelings is crucial. Screwing people one time too many will lead to trouble.

Talking to your employees on the basis that tomorrow is Armageddon to yield huge concessions, followed by a wonderful financial situation, gets you right into this situation.

Just when we thought Milton et al. had discovered the new religion of openness and truthfulness. Oh well, wishful thinking, I guess?

You seriously believe they can be open and truthful with customers, if they don't feel they have to be open and truthful with their employees?

Q Shoe Guy

Hmmm , I don't see these linkages at all.

kusteneun

Maybe if AC picked up some of these babies on the used market to tide them over for the next 20 years the ACPA membership would be happy

http://www.airliners.net/info/stats.main?id=87

exAC

The vote pattern is exactly what was speculated upon amongst some of the pilot group BEFORE the vote and again now.

There is a large group of oldAC pilots in the junior ranks that are still pissed about the oldCP pilots getting any of the good jobs. They did not sign on to the second part of your post.

You later speculate that 'this isn't over yet'. The thing that people never fail to realize about Milton is that he doesn't bluff. This order is dead. It is now up to the pilot group to come back and make a new offer. One way is to take the process to arbitration where they could actually lose from what they voted down this time.

prudentbear

Am I missing something here? Here is the data on respective Airbus/Boeing models :

767-300ER - 269 passangers in 2 class configuration. Range - 10,800KM
330-200 - 293 passangers in 2 class confuguration Range - 12,500KM
330-300 - 335 passangers in 2 class configuration. Range - 10,500KM

Airbus 330s are clearly superior to 763s interms of payload and range not to mention comfortable wider cabins.

exAC

I would guess that the only time that you have dealt with a strident ACPA pilot was at a cocktail party.

You are witnessing the new world order as it pertains to pilots.
They (and you) thought that Milton was bluffing. He does not bluff.
They believed that they should 'draw a line in the sand'. Without realizing that airlines around the world today will not pay what pilots believe they should be paid.
They believe that they cannot be replaced, when there are thousands of acceptable pilots in Canada alone that would take their job in a heartbeat and do it just as fine as the current crop.
They believe that they should show AC who is boss and they just found out.

Agincourt

I don’t know, nor do I really care, about this mgmt/union stuff. However, all I know is, I am truly disappointed and shocked to learn the news. For once, I really thought AC could become a world class airline in terms of fleet-wise. And I was quite looking forward to my next HKG trip on a 772LR, I guess my dream just disappeared. I have high respect for what pilots do. But, like other careers, if you don’t like what you do, or will do for that matter, then just quit it. I believe others will jump in to do the same stuff even for less. Well, what can I say? Disappointed, just truly disappointed.

drwoodsy

My sentiments exactly. How long are people prepared to fly on worn out planes that look like .... inside, no lie flat seats poor IFE etc etc......