Do Canadians like AC?
Apr 19, 2005, 8:42 am
#46
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Toronto
Programs: SPG LT Plat, Hilton G,Priorty Club G, AC E
Posts: 2,979
Once again these comments outline AC's problem...
...lack of consistency, some of you are happy, some not. Some of you get the service you require, some not. Even with policies you dont like, when they are consistently implemented you know what to expect. I agree do's with FT'ers is not sufficient, something similiar to *woods Communispace community is necessary. Just a thought.
Apr 19, 2005, 8:55 am
#47
At Large
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: oakville Ontario canada;AC*SE
Posts: 16,985
Originally Posted by the happy booker
Used to like AC. Used to love AC. Please note the usage of the past tense.
Like many other people, I have a hard time swallowing the current ethics and attitudes of the company. They reduce the wages of thier employees to levels almost the same as those which the employees would receive on EI, then announce a billion dollar plane-buying spree without any consideration as to whether or not this is tantamount to slapping these same employees in the face. Then there's the uniform issue. Same disrespect for the opinions/feelings of the workforce. The issue of internal corruption, which flares up now and again, here and there, usually to the passengers' detriment, as in YYZ, and certainly to the detriment of the honest employees, and once again, the people involved are not only allowed to walk off witout even a slap on the wrist, but are permitted to remain in their positions, and are even entrusted with greater responsibilities.
Makes the airline kind of hard to stomach.
A point of fact:
Air Canada is no longer a crown corporation, and is not outside of the law.
Sooner or later, it's going to catch up with them. My bet is sooner.
Like many other people, I have a hard time swallowing the current ethics and attitudes of the company. They reduce the wages of thier employees to levels almost the same as those which the employees would receive on EI, then announce a billion dollar plane-buying spree without any consideration as to whether or not this is tantamount to slapping these same employees in the face. Then there's the uniform issue. Same disrespect for the opinions/feelings of the workforce. The issue of internal corruption, which flares up now and again, here and there, usually to the passengers' detriment, as in YYZ, and certainly to the detriment of the honest employees, and once again, the people involved are not only allowed to walk off witout even a slap on the wrist, but are permitted to remain in their positions, and are even entrusted with greater responsibilities.
Makes the airline kind of hard to stomach.
A point of fact:
Air Canada is no longer a crown corporation, and is not outside of the law.
Sooner or later, it's going to catch up with them. My bet is sooner.
Apr 19, 2005, 9:31 am
#48
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: UK
Programs: IC Hotels Spire, BA Gold
Posts: 8,665
I think I'd agree with alot of the replies (this was my first thread posting and am amazed at the response). AC seem to be comparable with most NA airlines but actually much better than most - particularly in the last few years.
I guess the problem is they have had is alot of poor (and unjustified) publicity in recent years. I read RM's book and whilst I accept it will have a bias, AC do seem to have had more than their fair share of union issues, much more than BA which is the carrier of my country. And the battles AC has had with the GTAA seem unbelievable and alot of people blame AC for for any YYZ problems when in reality it is not their making. I find it incredible that AC has to use the infield terminal at YYZ for non-NA international flights whilst competing airlines have direct gate access at T3. I can't imagine BA settling for that at LHR in simliar circumstances - they are LHR's main customer and get treated with more priority as such, as any business would treat it's top customer. BA are heavily involved in the design of the new LHR T5 whilst it seems AC were told to mind their own business by the GTAA over T1new.
I flew in C to YYZ in January and probably hold the record for Infield T transfer to main T1 - over 55 minutes due to no buses at first and then having to travel all the way behind a baggage truck at around 25kph. But I wonder how many pax would blame AC for that - particularly if they missed a connection and had paid the full J fare for the privelige.
A colleague of mine now gives all his paid J business to YYZ to BA purely because of a similar experience at the Infield T and vows not to return to AC until the main T1 is complete. Is this AC's fault - no, but they are the losers of the revenue here. Just my "5 penn'th worth" as we Brits say!!
I guess the problem is they have had is alot of poor (and unjustified) publicity in recent years. I read RM's book and whilst I accept it will have a bias, AC do seem to have had more than their fair share of union issues, much more than BA which is the carrier of my country. And the battles AC has had with the GTAA seem unbelievable and alot of people blame AC for for any YYZ problems when in reality it is not their making. I find it incredible that AC has to use the infield terminal at YYZ for non-NA international flights whilst competing airlines have direct gate access at T3. I can't imagine BA settling for that at LHR in simliar circumstances - they are LHR's main customer and get treated with more priority as such, as any business would treat it's top customer. BA are heavily involved in the design of the new LHR T5 whilst it seems AC were told to mind their own business by the GTAA over T1new.
I flew in C to YYZ in January and probably hold the record for Infield T transfer to main T1 - over 55 minutes due to no buses at first and then having to travel all the way behind a baggage truck at around 25kph. But I wonder how many pax would blame AC for that - particularly if they missed a connection and had paid the full J fare for the privelige.
A colleague of mine now gives all his paid J business to YYZ to BA purely because of a similar experience at the Infield T and vows not to return to AC until the main T1 is complete. Is this AC's fault - no, but they are the losers of the revenue here. Just my "5 penn'th worth" as we Brits say!!
Last edited by BOH; Apr 19, 2005 at 9:47 am
Apr 19, 2005, 10:44 am
#49
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 7,156
Originally Posted by BOH
I flew in C to YYZ in January and probably hold the record for Infield T transfer to main T1 - over 55 minutes due to no buses at first and then having to travel all the way behind a baggage truck at around 25kph. But I wonder how many pax would blame AC for that - particularly if they missed a connection and had paid the full J fare for the privelige.
Last edited by Clipper801; Apr 19, 2005 at 11:01 am
Apr 19, 2005, 11:06 am
#50
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: YHZ
Programs: Sans souci
Posts: 2,190
Originally Posted by Clipper801
We probably should take a look at what AC could have done to prevent the situation, what it has done to prevent a future recurrence of the situation? This is management 101. My bet is that AC has done nothing. Most likely no one at AC even realised that passengers were waiting for a bus for 55 minutes because it was not in the union contract.
Apr 19, 2005, 11:07 am
#51
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: YOW
Programs: AC down to Orange lol, Marriott Silver?
Posts: 3,217
BOH,
I do a lot of transboarders to US and with being based in YOW, AC's requires T1 change to T2 US at YYZ is a pain in the you know what. As a result, I try to avoid YYZ except for red-eyes from West coast and early afternoons where the lines are better. AC talked about increased transboarder frequency from YUL at the Do but with connections from YOW, I am still not seeing that many options other than YYZ...
Yes, YYZ mess is not AC's fault but they can do something about better frequency from YOW-YUL or YUL transboarder. I guess schedule and ease of travel is the most important for me, except for RJ flights over 2-3 hours...
I do a lot of transboarders to US and with being based in YOW, AC's requires T1 change to T2 US at YYZ is a pain in the you know what. As a result, I try to avoid YYZ except for red-eyes from West coast and early afternoons where the lines are better. AC talked about increased transboarder frequency from YUL at the Do but with connections from YOW, I am still not seeing that many options other than YYZ...
Yes, YYZ mess is not AC's fault but they can do something about better frequency from YOW-YUL or YUL transboarder. I guess schedule and ease of travel is the most important for me, except for RJ flights over 2-3 hours...
Apr 19, 2005, 11:43 am
#52
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: UK
Programs: IC Hotels Spire, BA Gold
Posts: 8,665
Originally Posted by AnselmAdorne
Are you suggesting that AC should do something to ensure that there are buses at the IFT? Every moment I spend waiting for a bus or creeping to or from the IFT I'm cursing the GTAA, not Air Canada.
I entered Canada from the UK via YUL for the first time in about 2 years last month and it was a delight compared to YYZ. And at YUL in international immigration an AC employee separated connecting pax out in a separate channel. When I asked why this does not happen at YYZ the response was "We have been requesting this for over 2 years but to no avail". With YYZ being the biggest AC hub I do wonder if alot of their negative publicity is down to issues beyond AC's control.
Apr 19, 2005, 12:17 pm
#53
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 7,156
Originally Posted by AnselmAdorne
Are you suggesting that AC should do something to ensure that there are buses at the IFT? Every moment I spend waiting for a bus or creeping to or from the IFT I'm cursing the GTAA, not Air Canada.
Apr 19, 2005, 12:28 pm
#54
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: YOW
Programs: AC down to Orange lol, Marriott Silver?
Posts: 3,217
Yes, agreed. My two beefs with YYZ are the shuttles to change terminals (T1 to Term E jazz flights requires 2 shuttles 
) and immigration lines, which are both out of AC's control. But having YYZ as the primary hub for transboarder is within AC's control. Flew through YUL recently and what a difference ^ . Now if AC increase flights to/from YUL for us connecting passengers...
In US, I can get priority access with Elite status and that has saved my bacon (or at least my time) a few times.. Even the AC personnel to pull people out of the T2 immigration line whose flight are leaving soon are a godsend but I heard they were discontinuing with that.
) and immigration lines, which are both out of AC's control. But having YYZ as the primary hub for transboarder is within AC's control. Flew through YUL recently and what a difference ^ . Now if AC increase flights to/from YUL for us connecting passengers...In US, I can get priority access with Elite status and that has saved my bacon (or at least my time) a few times.. Even the AC personnel to pull people out of the T2 immigration line whose flight are leaving soon are a godsend but I heard they were discontinuing with that.
Last edited by Snoopyo; Apr 19, 2005 at 12:32 pm
Apr 19, 2005, 12:49 pm
#55
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Sun Peaks, Taupo.
Programs: NZ Elite, AC SE100K, Westjet Teal, Marriott Bonvoy Gold Elite, Nexus, Global Entry
Posts: 6,127
Generally speaking, I would say that AC is one of those companies that Canadians love to hate.
Many see AC as being a monopoly, many view AC has government owned.
Most of the people I come in contact with, will fly anyone but AC if given a choice. I am the only person I know in my circle of friends and colleagues who actually is overall happy with AC. When a discussion ensues, they usually reply, that I am looked after because I am a frequent flyer of AC's.
I used to hate AC, that was because I was a loyal CP customer, I viewed AC as a government owned business, therefore it automatically must be poorly run IMO.
Having being forced into AC with the demise of CP, I begrudgingly stepped on one of their a/c, and realised that their were some very nice people in the crew, the plane seemed to be clean, I arrived on time and in one piece. What more could you ask for.
I have learned to like AC. On my recent trip back from NZ, whereby NZ fouled everything up and left me hanging, AC came to the rescue for me, they fixed a problem which wasn't even their problem.
IMO, AC caters very well to it's Elite's and Super Elite's, it needs to look after the Basic's a little better, as one never knows when that Basic could be the next potential E or SE. Case in point, I was a Basic at the start of 2003, and was Elite by Nov that year.
As long as AC delivers consistent good service, stays away from idiotic ideas like the BOB meal program whereby some get a meal and some don't, they will slowly earn the respect and loyalty of the flying public.
AC is not going to please everyone, nor is Westjet. Westjet does not suit me, as they neither service most of my destinations, and if they do, they lack MLLs and big comfy seats. This does not mean I dislike or disrespect Westjet. In fact I respect Clive and crew for what they have created in a short time period and stayed consistently profitable with one exception. A large segment of the infrequent travelling public will always view Westjet and any other carrier but AC has the best airline from a price perspective.
I think that if AC can stay the course they are on, be consistent in their good service and good product, they will prevail.
Many see AC as being a monopoly, many view AC has government owned.
Most of the people I come in contact with, will fly anyone but AC if given a choice. I am the only person I know in my circle of friends and colleagues who actually is overall happy with AC. When a discussion ensues, they usually reply, that I am looked after because I am a frequent flyer of AC's.
I used to hate AC, that was because I was a loyal CP customer, I viewed AC as a government owned business, therefore it automatically must be poorly run IMO.
Having being forced into AC with the demise of CP, I begrudgingly stepped on one of their a/c, and realised that their were some very nice people in the crew, the plane seemed to be clean, I arrived on time and in one piece. What more could you ask for.
I have learned to like AC. On my recent trip back from NZ, whereby NZ fouled everything up and left me hanging, AC came to the rescue for me, they fixed a problem which wasn't even their problem.
IMO, AC caters very well to it's Elite's and Super Elite's, it needs to look after the Basic's a little better, as one never knows when that Basic could be the next potential E or SE. Case in point, I was a Basic at the start of 2003, and was Elite by Nov that year.
As long as AC delivers consistent good service, stays away from idiotic ideas like the BOB meal program whereby some get a meal and some don't, they will slowly earn the respect and loyalty of the flying public.
AC is not going to please everyone, nor is Westjet. Westjet does not suit me, as they neither service most of my destinations, and if they do, they lack MLLs and big comfy seats. This does not mean I dislike or disrespect Westjet. In fact I respect Clive and crew for what they have created in a short time period and stayed consistently profitable with one exception. A large segment of the infrequent travelling public will always view Westjet and any other carrier but AC has the best airline from a price perspective.
I think that if AC can stay the course they are on, be consistent in their good service and good product, they will prevail.
Apr 19, 2005, 1:14 pm
#56
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: UK
Programs: IC Hotels Spire, BA Gold
Posts: 8,665
Originally Posted by Clipper801
Yes, of course. GTAA is a service provider to AC and charges AC for providing the various ground services. If the service level provided is unsatisfactory, AC should escalate the issues with senior management of GTAA. It's all part of the travel experience with AC from the moment I queue to check in until the moment I collect my luggage off the conveyor belt at destination. Right or wrong, this is the general consumers' perception and the end sufferer is AC when passengers started to switch to another carrier at T3 because it's perceived as "more convenient" because of an ineffecient third party service provider.
I wonder if it is possible for AC to tender on-airport transport services and stipulate some KPI's into the contract?. Just a thought.
Apr 19, 2005, 4:11 pm
#57
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,123
I agree that YYZ is the cause of much of AC's bad publicity, but a lot of the problems are their own doing. No, they cannot control the buses to the different terminals (although they should have a say about where they park their planes, given that they are the main tenant at that airport). But I've never missed a flight because I've been waiting for a bus. I have missed a lot of flights because AC was so short staffed that they couldn't handle whatever hit them that day (weather, computer failure, or even just several delayed flights all at once). Meanwhile, other airlines managed to continue semi-normal operations.
Most airlines do a very good job of getting people from A to B when everything is normal. AC is a complete disaster during IROPS, which is when the quality of an airline is really evident.
I also agree they have serious communication problems. Not all frequent fliers attend Dos or read this board.
Most airlines do a very good job of getting people from A to B when everything is normal. AC is a complete disaster during IROPS, which is when the quality of an airline is really evident.
I also agree they have serious communication problems. Not all frequent fliers attend Dos or read this board.
Apr 19, 2005, 5:32 pm
#58
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: YYR
Programs: AC-2MM & 75K
Posts: 1,355
I think the biggest problem I have arriving at YYZ is the lack of ground crew to marshall in the plane, thus causing the plane to park and wait. This is AC's fault and not the GTA.
Taking busses between terminals is an inconvenient but common thing in modern air travel. We are lucky that we will only have to endure it for a while.
Taking busses between terminals is an inconvenient but common thing in modern air travel. We are lucky that we will only have to endure it for a while.
Apr 19, 2005, 6:09 pm
#59
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Toronto YYZ UA-1K 1MM,QFgold
Programs: Royal Ambassador/ SPG Platinum 75/Marriott gold
Posts: 14,283
Originally Posted by taupo
Generally speaking, I would say that AC is one of those companies that Canadians love to hate.
Many see AC as being a monopoly, many view AC has government owned.
Most of the people I come in contact with, will fly anyone but AC if given a choice. I am the only person I know in my circle of friends and colleagues who actually is overall happy with AC. When a discussion ensues, they usually reply, that I am looked after because I am a frequent flyer of AC's.
I used to hate AC, that was because I was a loyal CP customer, I viewed AC as a government owned business, therefore it automatically must be poorly run IMO.
Having being forced into AC with the demise of CP, I begrudgingly stepped on one of their a/c, and realised that their were some very nice people in the crew, the plane seemed to be clean, I arrived on time and in one piece. What more could you ask for..I think that if AC can stay the course they are on, be consistent in their good service and good product, they will prevail.
Many see AC as being a monopoly, many view AC has government owned.
Most of the people I come in contact with, will fly anyone but AC if given a choice. I am the only person I know in my circle of friends and colleagues who actually is overall happy with AC. When a discussion ensues, they usually reply, that I am looked after because I am a frequent flyer of AC's.
I used to hate AC, that was because I was a loyal CP customer, I viewed AC as a government owned business, therefore it automatically must be poorly run IMO.
Having being forced into AC with the demise of CP, I begrudgingly stepped on one of their a/c, and realised that their were some very nice people in the crew, the plane seemed to be clean, I arrived on time and in one piece. What more could you ask for..I think that if AC can stay the course they are on, be consistent in their good service and good product, they will prevail.
I might add AC is GOING to be a great airline we just have to wait a year for the equipment to catch up... WE just need a new Jetsgo to keep them honest.
