FlyerTalk Forums

FlyerTalk Forums (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/index.php)
-   Air Canada | Aeroplan (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/air-canada-aeroplan-375/)
-   -   Transport Minister Lapierre to move fast to allow U.S. airlines to fly within Canada (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/air-canada-aeroplan/397893-transport-minister-lapierre-move-fast-allow-u-s-airlines-fly-within-canada.html)

tcook052 Feb 7, 05 11:20 pm

Transport Minister Lapierre to move fast to allow U.S. airlines to fly within Canada
 
OTTAWA (CP) - Transport Minister Jean Lapierre says he intends to move "faster than you think" toward a deal with the United States that would allow American airlines to carry passengers between Canadian cities.

http://www.canada.com/travel/story.h...1-535174cbb83f

Ken hAAmer Feb 7, 05 11:40 pm

Hmmm... maybe it is worth going after SE again next year.

FlyerGoldII Feb 8, 05 4:02 pm

I would be interested in this development. Most to all of my domestic flying is between YOW and YYZ, or YOW to YVR (usually via YYZ - to maximize Aeroplan miles!). If various airlines from USA were to compete on these routes, I may or may not switch allegiances - factors in my decision would obviously include fares, and service. However, an alternate factor would be the frequent flyer benefits, and if the US competitor had greater benefits, I might switch. Even without switching, I suspect that AC and Aeroplan would have to, in the face of this competition, change the direction of the change of benefits year to year - from the current decrease of benefits, to a future increase in benefits.

YOWkid Feb 8, 05 4:09 pm

But imagine FGII, boarding at U.S. Preclearance and then going on to YVR and deplaning at U.S. gates and have to go through CIC. That's getting pretty desperate for a very low fare...

Like I've said in other posts, this issue is a lot more complicated and would mean a change in the way both the U.S. and Canada deals with its borders and immigration processes. So, we need to wait and see what the Borders Task Force and those folks at PCO, PSEPC, FAC and DND come back with.

I think it's going to be a very long time before any of these ideas come to fruition. Well, several years at least.

FlyerGoldII Feb 8, 05 4:14 pm

I am assuming that the US flights would be cabotage flights (US airlines flying direct routes between 2 Canadian cities and reciprocally AC flying direct routes between 2 US cities); I certainly would not go between 2 Canadian cities via an intermediate US airport in transit, for the reasons that you mention.

Guava Feb 8, 05 5:18 pm

Finally a Minister who understands what's best for Canadians and Canada. That said, like others have raised already, this project would have to come with a significant harmonization in our Immigration controls and checks. I am in favor of a EU style border between the U.S. and Canada. However, with the U.S. obsession on terrorism, I am afraid this would not be possible seeing how many U.S. Congressmen and Senators are so willingly to point finger at Canada for a problem that is really nobody's fault in particular.

Ideally, there should be one truly common border where U.S. and Canadian carriers can fly freely within North America and from any point in NA to any ports outside. I think more competition on YYZ-LHR or YVR-NRT for that matter is not such a bad idea. Of course, if Canadian carriers can fly routes like LAX-NRT, that would be equally as attractive.

These are issues that we should spend more time on as opposed to wasting money and times on many of the headlines recently.

yyznomad Feb 8, 05 8:15 pm


Originally Posted by YOWkid
I think it's going to be a very long time before any of these ideas come to fruition. Well, several years at least.

Agreed, 100%.

Doc Fraud Feb 8, 05 8:45 pm


Originally Posted by yyznomad
Agreed, 100%.

I think that you'll both be surprised at how soon, the new routes will start appearing after the deal is completed. Money talks and at the right price and frequency there will be enough money to move things along nicely.

Personally I'm banking on it! because without this little shot in the arm, AP is going to become the FutureShop, ESSO frequent buyers club.

DF

yyznomad Feb 8, 05 9:10 pm

I agreed with YOWKid, but it doesn't mean I don't want it to happen!

YOWkid Feb 8, 05 10:32 pm

The routes will appear quickly once the agreement is in place. You need to put the horse in front of the cart and not the other way around.

Until we have a Schengen-style agreement with the U.S., I'm won't be counting the days.

But yes, I'd like to see this as well -- it'll be a nice and challenging test for AC.

boymimbo Feb 8, 05 11:11 pm


Originally Posted by YOWkid
The routes will appear quickly once the agreement is in place. You need to put the horse in front of the cart and not the other way around.

Until we have a Schengen-style agreement with the U.S., I'm won't be counting the days.

But yes, I'd like to see this as well -- it'll be a nice and challenging test for AC.

I think AC has been through enough challenging tests lately, and I think allowing all airlines to compete in North America is a terrible idea. I realize that initially, AC will offer lower prices due to competition and that the selection of more flights to more places will be good for the traveller. It might also force AP to be more honest and comparable to US carriers.

On the other hand, Air Canada competing in a North American marketplace while having to adhere to legacy regulation (forced to HQ in Montreal, having dual language requirements, and higher taxes) will not bode well for AC.

Remember that most of the US carriers are losing lots of money due to competition. Delta, USAir, United are the big ones here. Only the LCCs are doing well. The US airline industry at its current state needs a serious adjustment to survive. Whether that's an airline being removed from the equation, further cost cutting, cutting routes, more alliances, etcetera.

As well, the US government was more than willing to bail out US carriers to the tune of $5B after 9/11, while the Canadian government granted AC no concessions during bankruptcy. Rules for bankruptcy are different in Canada than in the USA.

I can't see AC flying US only routes only either. What I see from the US carriers is them flying the major routes within Canada and competing directly with AC. And I think that US carriers will win this battle and knock AC out of the skies forever because they already have an unfair advantage.

Just my 2 cents.

LeSabre74 Feb 8, 05 11:25 pm


Originally Posted by YOWkid
...
But yes, I'd like to see this as well -- it'll be a nice and challenging test for AC.

Yes, just like Wal-mart was a nice, challenging test for Eatons
:mad:

With Westjet, Jetsgo and Canjet there is no lack of competition in our skies. Why would we invite the Americans in and help destroy Canadian companies. Does anyone really think the Americans will play fair. Hello, remember softwood lumber, pacific salmon treaty talks, bse etc etc?

Milton's embracing of this reminds me of the Yank who came up here to run MacBlo and sold it out to Weyehauser. I don't care if he's now got a Cdn passport or not, has he renounced his US citizenship? Has Brewer?

Somethings are worth preserving and I don't think saving another $10 on a flight is worth selling out my country for.

yyznomad Feb 8, 05 11:34 pm


Originally Posted by LeSabre74
Milton's embracing of this reminds me of the Yank who came up here to run MacBlo and sold it out to Weyehauser. I don't care if he's now got a Cdn passport or not, has he renounced his US citizenship? Has Brewer?

Somethings are worth preserving and I don't think saving another $10 on a flight is worth selling out my country for.

What's MacBlo? :D

Actually, we'll be saving $11, not $10 :p

brm744 Feb 9, 05 6:05 am


Originally Posted by LeSabre74
Milton's embracing of this reminds me of the Yank who came up here to run MacBlo and sold it out to Weyehauser. I don't care if he's now got a Cdn passport or not, has he renounced his US citizenship? Has Brewer?

Milton is a Canadian citizen now apparently, but look at AC's last four CEOs:

Hollis Harris - American
Lamar Durret - American
Robert Milton - American (then later Cdn)
Monte Brewer - American

the happy booker Feb 9, 05 8:13 am


Originally Posted by LeSabre74
Yes, just like Wal-mart was a nice, challenging test for Eatons
:mad:

With Westjet, Jetsgo and Canjet there is no lack of competition in our skies. Why would we invite the Americans in and help destroy Canadian companies. Does anyone really think the Americans will play fair. Hello, remember softwood lumber, pacific salmon treaty talks, bse etc etc?

Milton's embracing of this reminds me of the Yank who came up here to run MacBlo and sold it out to Weyehauser. I don't care if he's now got a Cdn passport or not, has he renounced his US citizenship? Has Brewer?

Somethings are worth preserving and I don't think saving another $10 on a flight is worth selling out my country for.

Bingo! I agree. That's the point exactly. We'll be forced to play by the US's rules and get flattened in the process. I don't mind co-operation, I do mind handing over our sovereignty to the US. We are not an adjunct US state,and that's the way I want it to stay.
Nationality doesn't matter as long as a person can do the job. I don't agree with all those arch-Canadian nationalists who think that Farley Mowat should be running AC, but regardless of what passport RM is carrying, his sympathies will certainly be compromised. And maybe leaning a little towards the US.
I was going to add 'or perceived to be', but I don't believe that. That would be to say that he may have no such leaning, which is something that even I don't believe. And as for Brewer, God knows, but I don't.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 8:46 am.


This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.