PNR Remarks Interpretation?
 

Hi all,

Can anyone interpret what these remarks in my PNR mean? Just about every flight from out of province since Thursday evening has been unable to land at YYT. In particular, I'm wondering about the "Airport approach air equipment failure", as the weather isn't that bad, from local reports.

PRO FOR IROPS 27 JAN.
LANDING SUBJECT YYT ACCT SNOW/LOW
CEILINGS/ RUNWAY CONDITIONS/AIRPORT
APPROACH AIR EQUIPMENT
FAILURE. ALTN YHZ. FLT DIVERTING YHZ ACCT YYT
WXX/RWY CONDS AND
DLYD AWAIT RUNWAY UPDATE

Thanks for any help!

ok I will break it down

Pro for Irops 27jan...mean this flight was the protection for the irregular
operations on the 27jan.

Landing Subj YYT acct snow/low........landing subject to weather conditions in YYT account snow and low ceiling runway and airport conditions.

Air equipment failure could be any kind of ground equipment that is used to
service an airplane although I suspect it may be the airstart unit.

ALTN YHZ....alternate airport is Halifax.

next line is flight diverting to Halifax due to YYT airport conditions.

the last line was probably put in when the flight was in Halifax and it states that the flight was further delayed from it's posted time waiting for weather and runway updates.

Most likely referring to the ILS.

Empress, you think this would be the Instrument Landing System? I looked up ILS, and that was the definition I found. Do you think this would be a ground-based equipment failure? I would be just a bit annoyed (after delayed for 3 days now) if this is being reported to passengers exclusively as a weather issue :mad:

To see what I mean about delays and cancellations, here's a link to the Airport arrivals:

http://makeashorterlink.com/?M43412B5A

So there is:
Snow making it slippery
Low cloud obscuring visibilty until just before the wheels hit the tarmac
The runways are crap and slippery
and some of the landing aids might not be working.

.......and you are mad at the airline :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

By the way, how long have you been living in YYT. This is normal for many times of the year.

Too bad the link is wrong. http://www.stjohnsairport.com/flight...rrivals_fr.htm

I'm not mad at the airline at all. I'm annoyed that I have been delayed in YYZ for 3 days now, and the delays are being reported as due to weather. Local weather forecasts indicate 2-5 cm of snow and some freezing drizzle. We're not talking about the same weather patterns that caused the winter storm that hit the east coast last weekend. I have also been speaking to many people living near the airport (as I do), and the conditions do not seem severe enough to delay flights for 3 days, but I'm no expert.

I have been living in YYT for quite some time, and travelling just about every week for the past 7 years, so I think I'm in a position to recognize something peculiar when I see it ;)

This thread reminds me of the infamous year of fog in YSJ between June 1979 and August of 1980 when the ILS on Rwy 05-23 was being upgraded.

The running joke at the time was that you met flights at the downtown airport (aka the bus terminal) because the late flights would more often than not end up being diverted to YFC or as happened on a couple of real bad days, diverted to the nearest legal alternative which was YUL. AC would pick up its Pax in a bus at YFC and shuttle them the 65 miles to YSJ...downtown.

Weather, and ground equipment problems are part of the territory when flying. The only way to avoid them is to drive or stay put until conditions improve. Its inconvenient as $ell but I'd rather deal with an airline that was conservative and safe than, one that would risk my neck to save a round of ground vouchers.

DF

Air Canada cancelled
Jazz cancelled
CanJet cancelled
Jetsgo delayed 15 hours

It's a conspiracy. :rolleyes:

You made me laugh, exAC! I'm not assuming a conspiracy :) I am also not an advocate for attempting to land in unsafe conditions, and would definitely prefer "an airline that was conservative and safe than, one that would risk my neck to save a round of ground vouchers" as Doc Fraud said. I would rather be bussed or ferried or not go at all, instead of risking my life.

Three full days of cancellations by all airlines (with delays for planes that actually landed) are not normal for average winter weather is what I'm noting here, and I'd rather be told of equipment malfunctions or breakdowns so I can plan accordingly. If the weather is bad, and expected to be bad for a period of time, I'll rebook for a later date. However, if the forecast reads light snow and drizzle, I'll take my chances at the airport and remain hopeful. However, if there are equipment problems that may not be resolved for a while, I won't cool my heels at the airport. Just tell me what the problem is, so I can make reasonable plans.

ExAC, I don't think I was clear enough in my first post, so sorry for the confusion. It's not as though I haven't been through delays and cancellations over the years, and I do expect more during winter months. But clear communication from an airport authority or an airline or the pilot and FAs goes a long way toward customer satisfaction. I don't think anyone would call that unreasonable.

Is it possible that the ILS (if that indeed is the problem) does malfunction frequently or is unable to function because of certain conditions frequently? I am asking these questions because I truly don't know.

A few years back, on an evening flight from ORD to YYZ, on an AC DC-9. We approached the airport, and were on final, coming in through heavy clouds (summer evening) when suddenly the pilot pulled the nose up, hit the throttles, and we felt the gear come up and lock. Shortly afterwards, the FO came on saying "You may have noticed that we recycled our landing gear. We've been told to go around, as the ILS system at YYZ has just gone down, and it should be back up in 15 minutes". After a few lazy circles over Lake Ontario, we made another approach, and came in for a smooth landing. So the ILS, like any other mechanical system, can go down at the best (or worst) of times, though hopefully not too often.
Even with the ILS operating. .... One time my wife and I were near the airport having a coffee, and I had my airprt radio on, listening to the incoming flights. Weather was very foggy, but aircraft were landing. Heard several flights land, then a DC-9 did a missed approach and we heard the pilot come on and say she (yep, a lady pilot) didn't think that the runways were at the minimums for arrivals. Tower said that other aircraft were landing and had landed after her missed approach, and to try again. She did, and had another missed approach, after which she came on and said again that she thought the runways were below minimums, and she then requested a routing to BUF, to try and land there. So even with the ILS, there are many other factors that may determine operations.

bj-21.

What's the visibility like? How low are the clouds? If the ILS or NDB has gone down, and a visual approach must be made, then those two items will be huge factors in determining whether flights will get in. I checked the weather, and over the past 3 hours, visibility has been around 2 miles and ceilings of 1000 feet above ground level. I'm guessing that you'll need ceilings of 2000 ft and visibility of 5 miles minimum for the flight to get in, assuming that the runways have been ploughed. The good news is that the long-term forecast says that its a mix of sun/cloud on Tuesday, so hopefully you'll get in by then.

- notam

I checked the NOTAMS for YYT earlier today. It looked like the glide path portion of the ILS was down. Minimums would be 400-500 AGL instead of 200AGL if the glide path was working. Ceilings at the time I checked were around 400' so that would help explain what is happening.

lol....now why didn't I think of that? :)

First, the good news: I finally made it home Saturday night at 11 pm. However, it sure was foggy on approach. So some assumptions that I made about the weather, upon hearing local reports, didn't take into account the visability.

But thanks so much for the explanations here. These, along with conversations with folks that have ILS technical knowledge have really helped me understand why the cancellations occurred. Maybe I haven't liked it, but there is no conspiracy! :D