WindBeneathMyWings

What is cabbotage? Or is it cabotage?

It was referred to in another thread, but I am not quite sure what it is.

I assume that it has something to do with a foreign airline picking up and dropping off passengers in another country. Am I warm?


cheers,

tcook052

http://www.dot.gov/ost/ogc/subject/f...eCabotage.html

Airline cabotage is the carriage of air traffic that originates and terminates within the boundaries of a given country by an air carrier of another country. Rights to such traffic are usually entirely denied or severely restricted.

http://www.thetravelinsider.info/info/freedoms.htm

First Freedom - The right to fly and carry traffic over the territory of another partner to the agreement without landing. (Almost all countries are partners to the Convention but some have observed this freedom better than others. When the Korean airliner lost its way over Soviet air space a few year ago and was shot down, the Soviet Union (among other offenses!) violated this First Freedom.)

Second Freedom - The right to land in those countries for technical reasons such as refueling without boarding or deplaning passengers.

Third Freedom - The right of an airline from one country to land in a different country and deplane passengers coming from the airline’s own country.

Fourth Freedom - The right of an airline from one country to land in a different country and board passengers traveling to the airline’s own country.

Fifth Freedom - This freedom is also sometimes referred to as 'beyond rights'. It is the right of an airline from one country to land in a second country, to then pick up passengers and fly on to a third country where the passengers then deplane. An example would be a flight by American Airlines from the US to England that is going on to France. Traffic could be picked up in England and taken to France.

Sixth Freedom - The right to carry traffic from one state through the home country to a third state. Example: traffic from England coming to the US on a US airline and then going on to Canada on the same airline.

Seventh Freedom - The right to carry traffic from one state to another state without going through the home country. Example would be traffic from England going to Canada on a US airline flight that does not stop in the US on the way.

Eighth Freedom - This is also called cabotage and almost no country permits it. Airline cabotage is the carriage of air traffic that originates and terminates within the boundaries of a given country by an air carrier of another country. An example of this would be an airline like Virgin Atlantic Airways operating flights between Chicago and New Orleans.

californiadreamin'

Right.. Cabotage is "..the exclusive right of a country to control the air traffic within its borders". For example, if a foreign carrier would be permitted to pickup & dropoff passengers within a country that the carrier is not based in
(e.g., DL picking up/dropping off passengers between YUL and YFC),
it would be said to be practising cabotage.

Bytepusher

Cabotage.

Very warm.

For countries that have this. Foreign airlines may not carry passengers between two points inside the country. For example Air Canada cannot carry passengers between say EWR and SFO, even if the passenger leaves the country in between the two end points on the same trip.

In other words AC can't sell a single ticket that includes a routing like EWR-YYZ-SFO but there is nothing stopping Joe pax from buying EWR-YYZ and YYZ-SFO as seprate tickets.

WindBeneathMyWings

Thank you both for the wealth of information.

I am now better informed.


cheers!

B1

"Cabotage is a term universally adopted in the international maritime community to mean the reservation of maritime coastal trades for ships registered or licensed in the country concerned. The word is French in origin meaning coastal sailing. Nearly every country in the world with a coast of its own regards coastal shipping as an integral part of its domestic transport system. For some countries it is not a big issue where there is a short coastline with one or two ports. For others with very large coastlines opening up domestic transport sectors to foreign competition is something they have persistently regarded as non-negotiable in international fora.

The extent to which each country imposes cabotage varies considerably. Among the most rigid and exclusive are the U.S., Brazil and Indonesia, whilst among the least restrictive are Canada, Italy, Uruguay and Australia, which have no ownership, construction, or flag of registration restrictions on vessels seeking to trade on their coasts." http://www.asa.com.au/whatsnew.asp
Except if it involves an airport.

yyznomad

Is an itinerary such as MDT-YYZ-YVR-HNL-YVR-YYZ-MDT all on AC a/c and no stopovers considered cabotage?

I booked this on AC.com last year, but when checking in at the UA counter I got scolded by the TA and he refused to issue me the ticket and claimed it was illegal... of course, my argument was "then explain how I booked this on the web"... so I told him to issue me the BPs up to YVR and that I'll deal with the YVR-HNL segment once I got my ... into friendly territory @ YYZ. Once at YYZ in the MLL I had no problem getting my last segment BP issued...

YOWkid

Isn't cabottage used for flights (airplane physically flying the route) and not routings?

YVR Cockroach

I think Australia allows cabotage under very specific circumstances. IIRC, Indonesia airlines are allowed to operate between major (capital?) cities but none have taken up that right. Australia did allow temporary cabotage during a major pilot strike in the '80s.

At least for a while a few years ago, you could book YVR-YYZ (that's all I tried) flights on NWA.com via MSP and other ports. Probably a programmign error.

yyznomad

I've tried booking (before I knew what was legal/illegal) US-CAN-US itineraries on both AC (different a/c) for example PHL-DEN thru YYZ and they wouldn't let me (web booking engines)... the itinerary to HNL that was in question was done in a "cheating" fashion, but nevertheless I got the AC booking engine to accept it...
Anyway I still have no clue and nobody has given me a straight "yes" or "no" answer...

Shareholder

Not sure about Australia. Were this the case, they would have permitted UA to carry local originating passengers between SYD-MEL on their "rump end" flight when ANSETT went under. Also, it needs to be same aircraft, not segments of a foreign carrier as posted by another example here.

exAC

An Airline like Air Canada cannot publish a fare PHL-YYZ-HNL. So by only plugging in PHL-HNL it should abend. It becomes a little more complex now that the fares are published as individual segments and if multi-city application is used, I can see it happening. It is likely that the overall calculation of taxes would cause the program to hiccup.

yyznomad

Yeah, what I did to go around it was using the multi-city, I did PHL-YVR, YVR-HNL, HNL-YYZ, YYZ-PHL

Came with a quote. I booked it no probs. If this shouldn't be allowed, I guess this is AC's fault.

LeSabre74

It's a delightful new meal selection AC is trying out, a delicious mixture of cabbage and cottage cheese.

Stranger

Computers make for wonderful scapegoats, don't they?

(Just ask about any physician in the US about their billing programs.)