Caution about upgrading multi-segments using one U/G cert
 

If you're upgrading using one cert for a multi-segment itinerary, make sure you ask the collecting agent/station to make a note in your PNR that it's been collected. AC's system is designed to remind the agent to collect an upgrade cert for each segment (stupid IMO, it should only be done for the first segment of a day's itinerary) at the gate; so if the agent don't see a note saying it's been collected, they could insist another one from you and say they don't believe that you've already surrender one.

This is especially important this year as the S/SWUs are rare and you can't afford to give an extra one when you don't have to.

[This message has been edited by Empress (edited Feb 10, 2004).]

Excellent advice http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/thumbsup.gif

I always make sure to have the gate agent make a note in my PNR and on my boarding pass. I approach the desk before they begin loading the flight so they have time to do it without putting undue stress on them. I have never had a problem with getting someone to do this. I always point out with a smile that it is difficult to track this sort of thing and I just want to make things easier for everyone http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

On this topic I've always wondered in an itinerary for example YYZ-LHR-MAN-LHR-YYZ where on the return leg I'm checking in at MAN with BD with a confirmed upgrade on the LHR-YYZ segment:


1. Does BD pull the cert at MAN and put it in your boarding card for LHR-YYZ or

2. Do you only check through to LHR and pick up your bags and check in with AC for the LHR-YYZ leg so they can pull the cert? I've always done it this way to be on the safe side.

[This message has been edited by Crampedin13A (edited Feb 10, 2004).]

You could check in all the way to YYZ; hold on the cert for LHR to collect. MAN won't care whether you have an U/G cert the LHR-YYZ flight as they are only responsible for the MAN-LHR segment; it's LHR that will be looking for it from you.

Empress,

I had an argument about two weeks ago on a CDG-YUL-YVR-SEA on a H Fare, it was a fare that didn't allow any stopover but I made full use of the less than 24h connection rule at in YUL and YVR.

I took CDG-YUL on Friday, stayed overnight in Montreal, took the YUL-YVR on Saturday and the YVR-SEA on Sunday (had to be in Seattle early Monday morning).

I tried to upgrade all segments (well, it didn't work for the dash-8 ride) with a single SWU from Paris but only the CDG-YUL cleared in advance so I was confirmed C on the transatlantic segment and confirmed H for the rest.

In Paris, I said, could you put a note to the next agent in my PNR saying that the SWU has been collected in Paris?

They said that there is no need to put a note, they will see it in Montreal.

Upon check-in in Montreal, after my new SE card refused to work in the automated kiosks, I enquired about my upgrade and the agent said, well sir, if you want to upgrade, you will need a certificate.

I replied: No, the cert was collected in Paris and since it is valid for the origin to the destination, only one SWU should cover it.

She said, it is not a connection, it is a stopover and therefore it requires no additional SWU (I had plenty left but I wanted to know how to handle it before using the new 2004 SWUs).

I explained to the agent, look at the ticket, this is a paper ticket and you will see in the x/o box that it is indeed a connection. The agent said, for it to be a connection, you should have taken the afternoon YUL-YVR yesterday.

After arguing for a while, she called someone and said: Go to the MLL and sort this out with the concierge.

Upon my arrival in the lounge, I had the same type of argument with the MLL agent so I asked to conctact the concierge. The agent told me that the concierge won't be there before the boarding of my flight.

Therefore, I called the reservations desk and explained the situation to an agent and I had the same type of argument. I asked, could you check with a supervisor, it is a connection since the fare allows no stopover. After chatting for a while with the supervisor, the agent came back and said, well, I am sorry, you were right.

I said, thank you, could you put a note in my PNR to the attention of the MLL agent for him to issue me a business class ticket without a SWU.

No problem sir.

So I finally got my boarding pass.

Just before boarding, I had a discussion with the concierge in Montreal about the agents not knowing about the rules and I asked if I should have handled it in another way.

She replied, no sir, the problem is that they don't use the same system in Paris so they can't leave a message to the next agent from Paris and nobody knows about all the rules. Therefore, please call me in advance if you think that there will be a problem with your upgrade and I will put a note in your file.

Is there a CIC that I can quote that explains that less than 24h is not a stopover on an international ticket?


Regards,
FRAC

STOPOVERS

NO ENROUTE STOPOVERS ARE PERMITTED. A STOPOVER OCCURS WHEN THE PASSENGER DOES NOT DEPART AN INTERMEDIATE POINT WITHIN 24 HOURS.

Not sure what the agent's problem was? Lazy?

Just needed to look at the fare rules which are in their computers, example above.

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Thank you BB but the problem is that they were unable to see it on the fare rules from what I've been told.

Actually, when I check the fare on expedia, the only thing I see is:

STOPOVERS - NOT PERMITTED
TRANSFERS - 4 PERMITTED OUTBOUND 2 INBOUND 2

Sorry to hijack the thread, for your information, it was a PARSEA fare with Fare Basis code HLXAPT3M.

I was looking for something that I could refer to like: If nothing is specified in the fare rule, please refer to CIC*XXX/YYY.

Remember, I had to talk to three agents before solving my issue (Check-in, MLL and Phone Reservations).


Regards

I wonder what non-SEs (ie. Es) should do in this situation as we cannot call for concierges?... Thoughts / advice?

No such CIC as far as I know. You just have to ask them to see the fare rules for the stopover rule. Yours is a published fare so Reservations should definitely be able to see the full fare rules (since you bought from AC. To tell you they can't is not true, otherwise what if you're calling to make changes?)

Next time ask the agent that is processing the upgrade for you to make a note in the PNR at the same time.

[quote]<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Empress:

Quote:

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Next time ask the agent that is processing the upgrade for you to make a note in the PNR at the same time.

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Thanks, clever idea, I am shocked I didn't think about it myself http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Regarding the fact that CDG are unable to update the notes in the PNR, is it true or it is also due to "laziness"?

FRAC

I am quite certain they can leave a note in your PNR; just that they can't leave a 'gate comment' for YUL to see.

Expedia and Travelocity each show different parts of the fare rules. If you print out both then you have a pretty full set of fare rules to accompany you to do "battle" with lazy gate agents.

"battle"- PS. I don't encourage confrontation, only friendly education about the rules. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Yeah. "Battle" is my forte.

Virtually all fares on all airlines on all international routes use the &lt;24 hour stopover rule.

There really shouldn't have been anything to "look up." They quite simply should have known.

The problem is some agents know then they assume the other agents would know. The agents that don't know assume that you're trying to lie to them. So never assume that every agent knows, always try to get it noted in the PNR.

stupid. Why is it the responsibility of the customer to ensure that his/her PNR is updated so that the customer doesn't have to pay the price of a system and a business process that doesn't facilitate a positive customer experience, nor even facilitating the adherence to their own darned policies in the first place!

Who is to say that the customer is even aware of what a PNR is?

Is Air Canada and it's passengers so far brainwashed that one doesn't see the lunacy in this - how far removed AC is from being customer focused?

stupid.