Sunny Day

Just did a comparison between flying to HKG from 1) YVR on AC vs. 2) from SFO on UA. For the sake of comparing oranges to oranges, both are booked on each airline’s own website, both web specials, highly restrictive in terms of rules and changes, both are trans Pacific gateway with considerable competition from other airlines on this route.

Outbound Feb 16, 2004

UA 869 SFO Dep 12:20 pm Arr 7:05 pm +1
Fare basis code WLXSP34

AC 7 YVR Dep 12:45 pm Arr 6:50 pm +1
Fare basis code QXWISHW

Inbound Feb 23, 2004

UA 862 HKG Dep 1:05 pm Arr 8:45 am

AC 7 HKG Dep 2:05 pm Arr 9:35 am

Cost on UA $576.94 USD
Cost on AC $1119.00 CAD

That is a whopping 94 % difference between these two gateway cities. Is this huge difference justified? Why?

Indeed a tale of two cities and two airlines.

LondonElite

Well, for starters, CAD1,119 is about USD838, reducing the difference to 40% over the UA price!

Andrew Yiu

Keep in mind that there are lots more J seats on UA's flight to HKG (73J on the 747 vs. 29J on AC's A340). The UA SFOHKG J fare is also $1000 more than AC YVRHKG. Then factor in the occasional F passenger on UA paying the $15K. So overall, UA makes more money from J/F than AC so they can afford to charge less for Economy class tickets.

Swiss Tony

Empress, I can see your logic, but from my experience, no one actually pays to travel in the C or F cabins on UA

Andrew Yiu

Well, at least those 10 or so people in F had to pay for C before they could upgrade there.

Andrew Yiu

Oh wait, forgot UA likes to put NRSAs in F most of the time based on what people said in the UA forum!

tracon

You will sometimes find UA cheaper from YVR to your destination and AC will be cheaper from SFO to your destination.

Fermat

empirically, i've never found AC to be "cheaper" from SFO to destination. In all cases that i've seen/booked, AC's price usually matches UA's fares out of LAX/SFO/SEA and never undercuts them.

Of course, it all depends on whether the applicable fare basis is still available when actually booking. BOOKABLE fares are a different matter altogether.

Fermat

also, the issue of clearing customs may have a significant impact on whether people want to transit through the U.S. to get to destination. Obviously for example, if you are a Canadian landed immigrant from a non-visa waiver country, the U.S. is NOT the cheap or simple option to use as a Pacific departure point.

Fermat

keep in mind that origin city size also has an impact on ticket prices since airline economics are (loosely) based on market dynamics such as population and hub city size. SFO clearly has a larger market base to price on (bay area is something like 6.8 million people? GVA is something like 2.1 million?)

Plus, UA at SFO has feeder traffic to Asia from other parts of their country that Canada just doesn't supply to Vancouver.

Vaab

AC528 SAN FRANCISCO INTL (CA) VANCOUVER INTL (BC) Feb 16 08:00 10:13 L
AC7 VANCOUVER INTL (BC) HONG KONG INTL (HK) Feb 16 12:45 18:50+1 L

AC8 HONG KONG INTL (HK) VANCOUVER INTL (BC) Feb 23 14:05 09:35 L
AC545 VANCOUVER INTL (BC) SAN FRANCISCO INTL (CA) Feb 23 11:45 14:00 L

Fare Summary
Canadian Dollars
Lowest Economy (With Restrictions)
Passenger Type Adult
Base Fare
(LXSAL15) 661.17
Navcan and Surcharges 8.83
Canada Airport Improvement Fee 0.00
Taxes
U.S.A Immigration User Fee 9.10
U.S.A Transportation Tax 35.60
Hong Kong Air Passenger Departure Tax 20.00
September 11 Security Fee 3.20
U.S Passenger Facility Charge 5.80
U.S. Federal Customs Fee 6.50
U.S Agriculture Fee 4.00
Number of Passengers 1

Total 754.20