Double Downgrade
Sep 3, 23, 2:00 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: YHZ
Programs: TK Elite, AC SE
Posts: 182
Double Downgrade
Very frustrated with AC.
Mrs simd and I (E75 and SE, respectively), booked on paid J ticket (P fare) under one reservation/PNR. Check in for AC 811 Sept 2 (LIS-YYZ), no problem. On the morning of the flight receive an email to say we have been reseated in PY due to operational issues. Arrive at check-in, get advised that the aircraft is now C-GOFV with no Signature Class, and get given boarding passes for 15A/15C. Soon realize that these are actually Economy and not PY, so at the gate go to the agent and request improved seating. Ask for a concierge but there is none. No option for PY, but both reseated in 23H/23K (exit row). Still not happy, but no options readily available at 60 mins preflight. At boarding, scanner reprints boarding passes - I am now in PY but Mrs simd has been reallocated 10F - economy class in the middle of a block, no aisle access or even a window! She requests PY, no go. Request old exit row seat back, no go. We both are very unhappy at being split up, despite being on the same reservation, as well as the double downgrade for my wife.
I was even more frustrated to see (1) people with E50 tags on their carry-on in PY, and (2) numerous teenagers sitting in the PY cabin. While I realize that I don't know all their facts, I doubt that they are all E75 or higher, even if traveling with other SEs (as was my wife). I cannot think that everyone else in PY had higher status and were on a paid ticket and were on a reservation with an SE - all of which should have put her in that cabin with me - not to mention getting what would arguably be one of the least desirable seats on a longhaul aircraft. I didn't think that they would split a reservation like this, but evidently it does happen.
I know this is a rant, and that we will get some refund to compensate for the change in class (thanks), as well as probably a discount coupon in response to my message to customer relations, but this just seemed to be particularly bad service, and far below what I think they should be providing to loyal customers.
Mrs simd and I (E75 and SE, respectively), booked on paid J ticket (P fare) under one reservation/PNR. Check in for AC 811 Sept 2 (LIS-YYZ), no problem. On the morning of the flight receive an email to say we have been reseated in PY due to operational issues. Arrive at check-in, get advised that the aircraft is now C-GOFV with no Signature Class, and get given boarding passes for 15A/15C. Soon realize that these are actually Economy and not PY, so at the gate go to the agent and request improved seating. Ask for a concierge but there is none. No option for PY, but both reseated in 23H/23K (exit row). Still not happy, but no options readily available at 60 mins preflight. At boarding, scanner reprints boarding passes - I am now in PY but Mrs simd has been reallocated 10F - economy class in the middle of a block, no aisle access or even a window! She requests PY, no go. Request old exit row seat back, no go. We both are very unhappy at being split up, despite being on the same reservation, as well as the double downgrade for my wife.
I was even more frustrated to see (1) people with E50 tags on their carry-on in PY, and (2) numerous teenagers sitting in the PY cabin. While I realize that I don't know all their facts, I doubt that they are all E75 or higher, even if traveling with other SEs (as was my wife). I cannot think that everyone else in PY had higher status and were on a paid ticket and were on a reservation with an SE - all of which should have put her in that cabin with me - not to mention getting what would arguably be one of the least desirable seats on a longhaul aircraft. I didn't think that they would split a reservation like this, but evidently it does happen.
I know this is a rant, and that we will get some refund to compensate for the change in class (thanks), as well as probably a discount coupon in response to my message to customer relations, but this just seemed to be particularly bad service, and far below what I think they should be providing to loyal customers.
Sep 3, 23, 2:26 pm
#3
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: SFO
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That sounds really crappy.
I don't have much to say other than read [Consolidated] Claiming EU261 Compensation from AC
You should be eligible for a refund of 75% of the ticket price, though I'd push for the price difference between Standard (or, given you got a middle seat at the gate, Basic) and what you paid, if that's more.
And that's just the refund. I'd definitely push for more. I would have expected them to downgrade J to PY (since it was necessary), and then all the PY pax to Y. In a scenario where J and PY were both full of paid pax (which I think is unlikely), that would only result in 2 J to Y downgrades. And I'd expect that to have a status component, where a 75K (I don't think being on the same PNR as a SE is relevant here) would not be in the bottom two.
I don't have much to say other than read [Consolidated] Claiming EU261 Compensation from AC
You should be eligible for a refund of 75% of the ticket price, though I'd push for the price difference between Standard (or, given you got a middle seat at the gate, Basic) and what you paid, if that's more.
And that's just the refund. I'd definitely push for more. I would have expected them to downgrade J to PY (since it was necessary), and then all the PY pax to Y. In a scenario where J and PY were both full of paid pax (which I think is unlikely), that would only result in 2 J to Y downgrades. And I'd expect that to have a status component, where a 75K (I don't think being on the same PNR as a SE is relevant here) would not be in the bottom two.
Sep 3, 23, 2:40 pm
#4
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: YHZ
Programs: TK Elite, AC SE
Posts: 182
The reason I fly in J is that I am 6'5" and do not fit into a Y seat; Mrs simd is very understanding of this, which is why we are still together after 30 years!
She insisted that I go in PY but was still not happy - would have much preferred the exit row.
It started with the check-in agent; I didn't realize that 15A/15C were Y until we were in the lounge, as the email stated we had been reallocated PY seats. The check-in agent was actually the one who gave us exit row seats at the gate, but not the one who scanned us and was unyielding on not retaining the exit row.
I intend pushing this further. This will not go away easily.
I was surprised to see the mix of "lucky" PY passengers, as they did not seem to be of higher status than my wife, and some definitely were not, according to their tags.
She insisted that I go in PY but was still not happy - would have much preferred the exit row.
That sounds really crappy.
I don't have much to say other than read [Consolidated] Claiming EU261 Compensation from AC
You should be eligible for a refund of 75% of the ticket price, though I'd push for the price difference between Standard (or, given you got a middle seat at the gate, Basic) and what you paid, if that's more.
And that's just the refund. I'd definitely push for more. I would have expected them to downgrade J to PY (since it was necessary), and then all the PY pax to Y. In a scenario where J and PY were both full of paid pax (which I think is unlikely), that would only result in 2 J to Y downgrades. And I'd expect that to have a status component, where a 75K (I don't think being on the same PNR as a SE is relevant here) would not be in the bottom two.
I don't have much to say other than read [Consolidated] Claiming EU261 Compensation from AC
You should be eligible for a refund of 75% of the ticket price, though I'd push for the price difference between Standard (or, given you got a middle seat at the gate, Basic) and what you paid, if that's more.
And that's just the refund. I'd definitely push for more. I would have expected them to downgrade J to PY (since it was necessary), and then all the PY pax to Y. In a scenario where J and PY were both full of paid pax (which I think is unlikely), that would only result in 2 J to Y downgrades. And I'd expect that to have a status component, where a 75K (I don't think being on the same PNR as a SE is relevant here) would not be in the bottom two.
I was surprised to see the mix of "lucky" PY passengers, as they did not seem to be of higher status than my wife, and some definitely were not, according to their tags.
Last edited by Adam Smith; Sep 3, 23 at 3:42 pm Reason: Merge consecutive posts by same user
Sep 3, 23, 3:05 pm
#5
Join Date: Nov 2021
Programs: Aeroplan Super Elite
Posts: 94
In my experience, the contractor gate agents (i.e. any airport where there's no dedicated AC station) are horrible at following status-based policy for IRROPS and aircraft swaps. It doesn't make it any less frustrating, but it's not surprising.
Last time I was involuntarily downgraded, they offered the fare difference plus cash (can't remember, maybe $500?), and that was just downgraded from a confirmed eUp in North America (and with several days notice).
Last time I was involuntarily downgraded, they offered the fare difference plus cash (can't remember, maybe $500?), and that was just downgraded from a confirmed eUp in North America (and with several days notice).
Sep 3, 23, 4:10 pm
#6
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Canada
Programs: AC*SE
Posts: 1,850
One thing I'd suggest though is not assuming the status of any of the other PAX (and maybe it's not even relevant), but at times people use old tags, or also paid j, or other things. Just if you write in assuming it but it turns out some of them aren't, it can take away from your message. Just focus on your experience and status.
Sep 3, 23, 5:33 pm
#7
formerly Sleepy_Sentry
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 600
Sorry to hear about this experience. Unfortunately contracted outstation staff are usually very bad at handling priority for seat assignments, upgrades, etc. Their only priority sadly is to put you on the plane.
You should be entitled to both 75% of the ticket price as well as the difference in taxes / fees for the classes traveled. Hopefully this results in a reasonable outcome. I would also expect additional compensation from AC for the inconvenience.
You should be entitled to both 75% of the ticket price as well as the difference in taxes / fees for the classes traveled. Hopefully this results in a reasonable outcome. I would also expect additional compensation from AC for the inconvenience.
Sep 3, 23, 5:50 pm
#8
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: LHR
Programs: AC SE
Posts: 4,155
What a crappy situation. I'd be pissed too.
Everyone is (probably correcting) pointing to the incompetence of contract ground staff at outstations, but what I'm wondering is why the reseating following an equipment sub wouldn't be handled centrally, either by a computer or HQ staff?
Everyone is (probably correcting) pointing to the incompetence of contract ground staff at outstations, but what I'm wondering is why the reseating following an equipment sub wouldn't be handled centrally, either by a computer or HQ staff?
Sep 3, 23, 5:59 pm
#9
Join Date: Aug 2012
Programs: ba silver
Posts: 682
I would have asked for a reroute on a different airline. If I remember their contact of carriage does allow for a reroute in situations where a class of service is no longer available. I' ve had no problems getting rerouted instead of a dowgrade.
You have to push for it. Most low-level airline employees do their jobs very well but sometimes you get a lazy one and in this case you need to elevate this to a manager.
Just send a polite letter asking for a refund of 75% of your one-way fare. AC should respond quickly.
You have to push for it. Most low-level airline employees do their jobs very well but sometimes you get a lazy one and in this case you need to elevate this to a manager.
Just send a polite letter asking for a refund of 75% of your one-way fare. AC should respond quickly.
Sep 3, 23, 6:33 pm
#11
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: YUL
Programs: ✈ AC 1MM / S100K - SPG Lifetime Platinum = BONVoY Lifetime Titanium
Posts: 1,455
Crappy situation. I would also be upset.
One thing I wouldn't do is assume luggage tags or 'teenagers" somehow matters... it has no relevance... and in my opinion sheds a bit of DYKWIA.
I also don't agree that AC should move PY clients to Y to accomodate clients who were dowgraded from J. If Ac did that they would now have twice as many claims for that flight.
For me , the biggest issue is tha being SE and 75k would lead one to believe that you would be further down the pecking order of those being downgraded. that's the issue ... AC handled this poorly.
Downgrades happen . but in this case i believe that, easilly, other passengers with less status or fare type etc would have been a better choice. [ ie ;logical]
One thing I wouldn't do is assume luggage tags or 'teenagers" somehow matters... it has no relevance... and in my opinion sheds a bit of DYKWIA.
I also don't agree that AC should move PY clients to Y to accomodate clients who were dowgraded from J. If Ac did that they would now have twice as many claims for that flight.
For me , the biggest issue is tha being SE and 75k would lead one to believe that you would be further down the pecking order of those being downgraded. that's the issue ... AC handled this poorly.
Downgrades happen . but in this case i believe that, easilly, other passengers with less status or fare type etc would have been a better choice. [ ie ;logical]
Sep 3, 23, 6:34 pm
#12
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: YHZ
Programs: TK Elite, AC SE
Posts: 182
I would have asked for a reroute on a different airline. If I remember their contact of carriage does allow for a reroute in situations where a class of service is no longer available. I' ve had no problems getting rerouted instead of a dowgrade.
You have to push for it. Most low-level airline employees do their jobs very well but sometimes you get a lazy one and in this case you need to elevate this to a manager.
Just send a polite letter asking for a refund of 75% of your one-way fare. AC should respond quickly.
You have to push for it. Most low-level airline employees do their jobs very well but sometimes you get a lazy one and in this case you need to elevate this to a manager.
Just send a polite letter asking for a refund of 75% of your one-way fare. AC should respond quickly.
Crappy situation. I would also be upset.
One thing I wouldn't do is assume luggage tags or 'teenagers" somehow matters... it has no relevance... and in my opinion sheds a bit of DYKWIA.
I also don't agree that AC should move PY clients to Y to accomodate clients who were dowgraded from J. If Ac did that they would now have twice as many claims for that flight.
For me , the biggest issue is tha being SE and 75k would lead one to believe that you would be further down the pecking order of those being downgraded. that's the issue ... AC handled this poorly.
Downgrades happen . but in this case i believe that, easilly, other passengers with less status or fare type etc would have been a better choice. [ ie ;logical]
One thing I wouldn't do is assume luggage tags or 'teenagers" somehow matters... it has no relevance... and in my opinion sheds a bit of DYKWIA.
I also don't agree that AC should move PY clients to Y to accomodate clients who were dowgraded from J. If Ac did that they would now have twice as many claims for that flight.
For me , the biggest issue is tha being SE and 75k would lead one to believe that you would be further down the pecking order of those being downgraded. that's the issue ... AC handled this poorly.
Downgrades happen . but in this case i believe that, easilly, other passengers with less status or fare type etc would have been a better choice. [ ie ;logical]
What a crappy situation. I'd be pissed too.
Everyone is (probably correcting) pointing to the incompetence of contract ground staff at outstations, but what I'm wondering is why the reseating following an equipment sub wouldn't be handled centrally, either by a computer or HQ staff?
Everyone is (probably correcting) pointing to the incompetence of contract ground staff at outstations, but what I'm wondering is why the reseating following an equipment sub wouldn't be handled centrally, either by a computer or HQ staff?
Last edited by Adam Smith; Sep 3, 23 at 10:40 pm Reason: Merge consecutive posts by same user
Sep 3, 23, 7:44 pm
#13
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Join Date: Sep 2012
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Sep 3, 23, 7:53 pm
#14
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Join Date: Mar 2005
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Maybe AC decided it would be cheaper for them to downgrade the J pax to Y and pay them compensation versus paying J passengers compensation for downgrade to PY and PY passengers for downgrade to Y.
Sep 3, 23, 10:03 pm
#15
formerly known as DeltaNYC
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: YYZ, mostly...
Programs: AC SE100K / BA Silver / Marriott Ambassador (LT Plat) / Hilton Diamond
Posts: 1,647
Notwithstanding other commitments the following day, I would have refused to board... and told the GA they can waste 30 mins offloading me and my luggage or 30 seconds assigning me seats in PY. Their choice.
