Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Miles&Points > Airlines and Mileage Programs > Air Canada | Aeroplan
Reload this Page >

A321XLR Signature Class suites, CR9/E75 and 787/777 refreshes (M. Nasr interview)

A321XLR Signature Class suites, CR9/E75 and 787/777 refreshes (M. Nasr interview)

Old May 25, 23, 8:14 pm
  #1  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 1,437
A321XLR Signature Class suites, CR9/E75 and 787/777 refreshes (M. Nasr interview)

Just sharing some details on what's next in the AC product space, as revealed by AC execs in an interview

* A321XLRs to have "private flatbed suites" in business class (seven rows of 1-1 config)

* "New cabins" for Express 175s and CRJ900s from next year

* Work is also underway on second-gen widebody Signature Class as 789s come due for a retrofit

More at https://www.executivetraveller.com/n...business-class

[Quick disclosure: I'm the editor-in-chief at Executive Traveller, this info came from an interview with Mark Nasr during his quick trip to Sydney, and I'm happy to reply to questions or share anything else that comes up from this]
YULRvR, msat, ffsim and 10 others like this.
djsflynn is offline  
Old May 25, 23, 8:27 pm
  #2  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,345
Originally Posted by djsflynn
* A321XLRs to have "private flatbed suites" in business class (seven rows of 1-1 config)
And NO PY. That has implications for upgrades though it may be good or bad depending on your buying pattern or status level
zkzkz is offline  
Old May 25, 23, 9:31 pm
  #3  
 
Join Date: Apr 2023
Posts: 9
Very interesting, thanks for sharing! They are taking note directly from the US based aircraft which has really stepped up their domestic first class offering

. I am not entirely sure though how applicable this would be for wide body aircraft..those design tend to be different for two aisle aircraft.
Ethelstan is offline  
Old May 25, 23, 9:39 pm
  #4  
 
Join Date: Apr 2022
Programs: Air Canada SE; Marriott Bonvoy Platinum
Posts: 56
Originally Posted by djsflynn
Just sharing some details on what's next in the AC product space, as revealed by AC execs in an interview

* A321XLRs to have "private flatbed suites" in business class (seven rows of 1-1 config)

* "New cabins" for Express 175s and CRJ900s from next year

* Work is also underway on second-gen widebody Signature Class as 789s come due for a retrofit

More at https://www.executivetraveller.com/n...business-class

[Quick disclosure: I'm the editor-in-chief at Executive Traveller, this info came from an interview with Mark Nasr during his quick trip to Sydney, and I'm happy to reply to questions or share anything else that comes up from this]
Very interesting. First I've heard about the new business class for the Express Embraer 175s and CRJ900s. Being in the regions, I'm looking forward to seeing how that works out; as well as all all the other improvements. Great interview.
PaulYK is offline  
Old May 26, 23, 6:08 am
  #5  
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Programs: AC SE*100K
Posts: 1,556
Originally Posted by zkzkz
And NO PY. That has implications for upgrades though it may be good or bad depending on your buying pattern or status level
Super disappointing for me as someone who buys a lot of PY but never J. Their "well we'll use it on NA routes too where PY is in lower demand" answer is pretty weak - I guess they figure cramming in a few more Y seats will make them more money that a couple of rows of PY, but I think they'll be very substantially weakening their TATL product offering. I flew the SAS A321-XLR in PY and the hard product was pretty much identical to the AC A220 J seat and I was pretty happy with it, and the PY cabin was completely full. I guess I care a lot less about getting YOW-LHR/FRA back again now on these planes, thanks AC.
RatherBeInYOW is online now  
Old May 26, 23, 6:22 am
  #6  
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: YYZ ✈ YYG
Programs: airlines and hotels and rental cars - oh my!
Posts: 2,825
Thanks for posting this, OP. Very interesting.
Symmetre is offline  
Old May 26, 23, 6:25 am
  #7  
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Edmonton/Calgary/Vancouver
Programs: AC SE100K 1MM, Bonvoy Platinum Elite, IHG Platinum Elite, Hilton Gold, Accor Silver
Posts: 1,310
Originally Posted by RatherBeInYOW
Super disappointing for me as someone who buys a lot of PY but never J. Their "well we'll use it on NA routes too where PY is in lower demand" answer is pretty weak - I guess they figure cramming in a few more Y seats will make them more money that a couple of rows of PY, but I think they'll be very substantially weakening their TATL product offering. I flew the SAS A321-XLR in PY and the hard product was pretty much identical to the AC A220 J seat and I was pretty happy with it, and the PY cabin was completely full. I guess I care a lot less about getting YOW-LHR/FRA back again now on these planes, thanks AC.
It would seem difficult to market a 2-2 PY cabin when the aircraft is flying in North America and I am curious as to how you think they might market it? AA is reconfiguring their A321's that were used on transcon routes where they had F (1-1), J (2-2), and Y (3-3). 2-2 is marketed as J on domestic, transborder, and sun routes, so it what would be done if the XLR is put on those routes? I see it as a pretty big challenge from a marketing and fleet utilisation perspective if it was J, PY, and Y (although I am sure it could be done).
EdmFlyBoi is offline  
Old May 26, 23, 6:28 am
  #8  
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Edmonton/Calgary/Vancouver
Programs: AC SE100K 1MM, Bonvoy Platinum Elite, IHG Platinum Elite, Hilton Gold, Accor Silver
Posts: 1,310
Originally Posted by djsflynn
Just sharing some details on what's next in the AC product space, as revealed by AC execs in an interview

* A321XLRs to have "private flatbed suites" in business class (seven rows of 1-1 config)

* "New cabins" for Express 175s and CRJ900s from next year

* Work is also underway on second-gen widebody Signature Class as 789s come due for a retrofit

More at https://www.executivetraveller.com/n...business-class

[Quick disclosure: I'm the editor-in-chief at Executive Traveller, this info came from an interview with Mark Nasr during his quick trip to Sydney, and I'm happy to reply to questions or share anything else that comes up from this]
My guess would be Super Diamond with a door. BA, EY, VS, and others are all using this seat. Seems like that would be an easy choice as it would make reconfiguring the aircraft fairly straight forward (I would think) and it is a pretty competitive product.
EdmFlyBoi is offline  
Old May 26, 23, 6:55 am
  #9  
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Programs: AC, AS, BA Silver/OW Sapphire, DL, Bonvoy Platinum, HH Gold
Posts: 125
Originally Posted by RatherBeInYOW
Super disappointing for me as someone who buys a lot of PY but never J. Their "well we'll use it on NA routes too where PY is in lower demand" answer is pretty weak - I guess they figure cramming in a few more Y seats will make them more money that a couple of rows of PY, but I think they'll be very substantially weakening their TATL product offering. I flew the SAS A321-XLR in PY and the hard product was pretty much identical to the AC A220 J seat and I was pretty happy with it, and the PY cabin was completely full. I guess I care a lot less about getting YOW-LHR/FRA back again now on these planes, thanks AC.
Lack of PY in NA might be tolerable yet TATL routes have a PY value proposition that is hard to ignore. Indeed, the TATL/TPAC PY cabins tend to be packed, hitting the sweet spot for many people.

An avid PY pax, and anyway not a great fan of narrow bodies on TATL/long-haul, the doing away with PY seems like a real miss
Doors Closing is offline  
Old May 26, 23, 6:58 am
  #10  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 1,437
Originally Posted by EdmFlyBoi
My guess would be Super Diamond with a door. BA, EY, VS, and others are all using this seat.
BA and EY are both using the same core platform, Collins Super Diamond / Elements (as is Starlux), however VS is using Thompsons Vantage XL.

But youre absolutely right, if Air Canada did want to swap like for like, then Elements would seem the obvious candidate.

Last edited by djsflynn; May 26, 23 at 7:17 am
djsflynn is offline  
Old May 26, 23, 7:00 am
  #11  
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Programs: AC SE*100K
Posts: 1,556
Originally Posted by EdmFlyBoi
It would seem difficult to market a 2-2 PY cabin when the aircraft is flying in North America and I am curious as to how you think they might market it? AA is reconfiguring their A321's that were used on transcon routes where they had F (1-1), J (2-2), and Y (3-3). 2-2 is marketed as J on domestic, transborder, and sun routes, so it what would be done if the XLR is put on those routes? I see it as a pretty big challenge from a marketing and fleet utilisation perspective if it was J, PY, and Y (although I am sure it could be done).
I mean I guess since we don't know what routes AC really intends to fly with these planes it is hard to say. But they already fly plenty of domestic and US routes with J/PY/Y configured aircraft. They'd market it just like those - in fact having an international J product and no PY would be a departure from what they offer today - there no longer any aircraft in the fleet with lie flat J (Signature Class) and no PY cabin. And I am assuming that the primary reason to buy the 312-XLR is TATL, where not having this product is a major drawback.
RatherBeInYOW is online now  
Old May 26, 23, 7:05 am
  #12  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 1,437
Originally Posted by Ethelstan
I am not entirely sure though how applicable this would be for wide body aircraft..those design tend to be different for two aisle aircraft.
if youre referring to the part where they discuss, giving the narrowbodies and widebodies a common and consistent design approach, this is much about the seat itself than it is about more aesthetic brand aspects for the sake of consistency, not just between aircraft, but in lounges etc - so youre talking more about colors, textures, materials, mechanisms, UX, inspirations, design cues and a whole design language which creates a common thread right across the airline.
billdokes likes this.
djsflynn is offline  
Old May 26, 23, 7:39 am
  #13  
 
Join Date: Oct 2022
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 160
Originally Posted by RatherBeInYOW
I guess I care a lot less about getting YOW-LHR/FRA back again now on these planes, thanks AC.
having only 14 seats into which one could in principle upgrade from Y would be a major deterrent for me buying transatlantic Y on this plane. I guess the fact you wouldn’t have to worry about being behind someone in PY for a gate upgrade helps, but 14 non-Y seats for TATL seems very low. It’s like Ryanair with a very small j cabin upfront.

Last edited by Adam Smith; May 26, 23 at 1:04 pm Reason: Fixed quote
flyingcrooked is offline  
Old May 26, 23, 11:28 am
  #14  
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: SFO
Programs: AC SE MM, UA Gold, Bonvoy Tit LT Sil, Hyatt Glob, HH Diamond, Accor Silver
Posts: 42,047
Originally Posted by EdmFlyBoi
It would seem difficult to market a 2-2 PY cabin when the aircraft is flying in North America and I am curious as to how you think they might market it? AA is reconfiguring their A321's that were used on transcon routes where they had F (1-1), J (2-2), and Y (3-3). 2-2 is marketed as J on domestic, transborder, and sun routes, so it what would be done if the XLR is put on those routes? I see it as a pretty big challenge from a marketing and fleet utilisation perspective if it was J, PY, and Y (although I am sure it could be done).
I think the main "marketing" challenge is trying to explain to people why J on a 320 is the same as PY on a 321XLR.

Short of re-branding all non-lie-flat seats to PY, the internal marketing would be inconsistent. And then it's "why would I pay the same price for PY on AC as business on UA?"

Originally Posted by Doors Closing
Lack of PY in NA might be tolerable yet TATL routes have a PY value proposition that is hard to ignore. Indeed, the TATL/TPAC PY cabins tend to be packed, hitting the sweet spot for many people.

An avid PY pax, and anyway not a great fan of narrow bodies on TATL/long-haul, the doing away with PY seems like a real miss
I'm curious what their general flight time cutoff is where people actually start buying PY instead of Y. The difference in distance between YUL-SFO, YOW-FRA, and YVR-NRT is about 1000 miles each. But it could simply come down to company travel policies resulting in certain routes selling a lot of PY, and others (like within NA) not.

I rarely buy Y on intercontinental flights, because the upgrade priority sucks. It's unlikely I'm going to buy Y on a TATL currently set to be operated by the XLR, because if there's an equipment swap, suddenly my "top of list" priority becomes "middle of list".
TheCanuckian likes this.
canadiancow is offline  
Old May 26, 23, 11:44 am
  #15  
 
Join Date: Jun 2022
Posts: 99
Are there any photos / mockups A321XLR's flat beds? looking forward to travel in one in future
cheesyfeet is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread