Flying business as a redemption reward is actually bad
Jan 5, 23, 7:32 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2022
Posts: 25
Flying business as a redemption reward is actually bad
Ever since I had a taste of flying business on flight redemption, it’s hard to fly economy again. Especially if it’s a long haul flight. Now you’re planning the itinerary around the flight so you can maximize your redemption values. It’s like a Pandora’s box. I’ve actually paid for business class flights now too because once you experience it you cannot go back. This has also trickled down to other transportation methods too like trains and private cars. Is it just me?
Jan 5, 23, 7:38 am
#2
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: YOW
Programs: AC SE, FOTSG Platinum
Posts: 4,984
Originally Posted by dynamicvapor
Ever since I had a taste of flying business on flight redemption, it’s hard to fly economy again. Especially if it’s a long haul flight. Now you’re planning the itinerary around the flight so you can maximize your redemption values. It’s like a Pandora’s box. I’ve actually paid for business class flights now too because once you experience it you cannot go back. This has also trickled down to other transportation methods too like trains and private cars. Is it just me?
I've booked particular award flights because I wanted to stop over at [city] for lunch on my way somewhere, I've booked specific flights because I just wanted to try that airline, I've even booked flights because I wanted to go to the whiskey bar in Zurich airport and you can't fly direct from Canada to London City.
...but I've never booked a flight just so I could tell myself I'd gotten 0.5 more CPP.
Mostly I try to have enough points to book my long-haul travel in premium cabins because I don't have tens of thousands of dollars to spare, and after flying five hours in Y last night, today I feel like I got hit by a small truck.
Jan 5, 23, 7:44 am
#3
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2022
Posts: 25
Originally Posted by YOWgary
If you're organizing your travel around "maximizing redemption values", I would call that a bad set of priorities.
I've booked particular award flights because I wanted to stop over at [city] for lunch on my way somewhere, I've booked specific flights because I just wanted to try that airline, I've even booked flights because I wanted to go to the whiskey bar in Zurich airport and you can't fly direct from Canada to London City.
...but I've never booked a flight just so I could tell myself I'd gotten 0.5 more CPP.
Mostly I try to have enough points to book my long-haul travel in premium cabins because I don't have tens of thousands of dollars to spare, and after flying five hours in Y last night, today I feel like I got hit by a small truck.
I've booked particular award flights because I wanted to stop over at [city] for lunch on my way somewhere, I've booked specific flights because I just wanted to try that airline, I've even booked flights because I wanted to go to the whiskey bar in Zurich airport and you can't fly direct from Canada to London City.
...but I've never booked a flight just so I could tell myself I'd gotten 0.5 more CPP.
Mostly I try to have enough points to book my long-haul travel in premium cabins because I don't have tens of thousands of dollars to spare, and after flying five hours in Y last night, today I feel like I got hit by a small truck.
Jan 5, 23, 8:35 am
#4
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 522
Booking by CPP seems silly IMO - I don't want to go to a city where the cash equivalent fare is the highest, I want to go somewhere I'm interested in going. If I'm happy with the overall redemption, that's fine with me.
I'll consider operating airline, class of service, aircraft type, departure time, layover length, layover airports, stopover cities, destination city, departure airport, flight duration, and overall redemption cost (in no particular order), but CPP just adds complexity that isn't worth it. But I'm happy to check the CPP for whatever I picked and booked as a "Oh that's cool", or "Oh that's bad value, maybe I should pay cash instead".
I'll consider operating airline, class of service, aircraft type, departure time, layover length, layover airports, stopover cities, destination city, departure airport, flight duration, and overall redemption cost (in no particular order), but CPP just adds complexity that isn't worth it. But I'm happy to check the CPP for whatever I picked and booked as a "Oh that's cool", or "Oh that's bad value, maybe I should pay cash instead".
Jan 5, 23, 8:58 am
#5
Join Date: Aug 2022
Location: YYZ
Programs: Aeroplan
Posts: 117
Agreed on the J bug. I can't remember the last time I've sat in Y when the flight is greater than 2 hours.....until just right now. Waiting to take off and kicking myself for not bidding more on the bid upgrade. Couldn't justify spending 2x for PY for 4x for J. Definitely going to put in a good bid for the return tho!
Jan 5, 23, 9:12 am
#6
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: YOW
Programs: AC SE, FOTSG Platinum
Posts: 4,984
Originally Posted by dynamicvapor
Now you’ll double think it next time you book. Maybe that $500 upgrade to J is worth it now. Who knows. That’s what sucks about the J bug once you catch it.
When the client wants you on a flight that's J0, that's what happens.
Jan 5, 23, 9:15 am
#7
Join Date: Oct 2022
Programs: Aeroplan SE; Marriott Bonvoy Platinum
Posts: 759
Originally Posted by JayTakesOff
Agreed on the J bug. I can't remember the last time I've sat in Y when the flight is greater than 2 hours.....until just right now. Waiting to take off and kicking myself for not bidding more on the bid upgrade. Couldn't justify spending 2x for PY for 4x for J. Definitely going to put in a good bid for the return tho!
I regret a lot for the two flight I had with UA I did not choose economy +.
Sometimes it is not the seat per se is particularly uncomfortable, but your seat mate. Especially nowadays lots of middle seats are occupied by economy basic pax.
Jan 5, 23, 9:19 am
#8
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Edmonton
Programs: Aeroplan SE (Almost Million Miler), Marriott Lifetime Platinum
Posts: 109
Originally Posted by dynamicvapor
Ever since I had a taste of flying business on flight redemption, it’s hard to fly economy again. Especially if it’s a long haul flight. Now you’re planning the itinerary around the flight so you can maximize your redemption values. It’s like a Pandora’s box. I’ve actually paid for business class flights now too because once you experience it you cannot go back. This has also trickled down to other transportation methods too like trains and private cars. Is it just me?
Luckily for redemption, we are very flexible and have a list of places we want to go. So we do very well with SE PR's.
Jan 5, 23, 9:30 am
#9
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Montréal
Programs: Air Canada, Hyatt
Posts: 1,324
This thread is.....interesting.
I think as others have said, redeeming on CPM basis is indeed a flawed methodology.
For example, 90k AP one-way YUL-DXB, versus 87k one-way YUL-SIN.
Which city / country is more appealing? The answer to that question is entirely subjective and cannot be standardized since every individual's list of requirements and reasons for going to "X" destination is different.
Choose a destination that is of interest and meaning to you, and go with that!
Cutting off your nose to spite your face doesn't accomplish anything.....except maybe a botched nose job.
I think as others have said, redeeming on CPM basis is indeed a flawed methodology.
For example, 90k AP one-way YUL-DXB, versus 87k one-way YUL-SIN.
Which city / country is more appealing? The answer to that question is entirely subjective and cannot be standardized since every individual's list of requirements and reasons for going to "X" destination is different.
Choose a destination that is of interest and meaning to you, and go with that!
Cutting off your nose to spite your face doesn't accomplish anything.....except maybe a botched nose job.
Jan 5, 23, 9:35 am
#10
Join Date: May 2015
Location: EXT, sometimes NYC/LON/YQT
Programs: Aeroplan, SPG/Marriott, Radisson Rewards
Posts: 716
Maybe hot take: Does anyone are about CPM outside of people who run travel blogs for clicks?
Do you feel you got value out of a redemption? Did it let you do someting you wanted to do? Then you have, IMO.
Do you feel you got value out of a redemption? Did it let you do someting you wanted to do? Then you have, IMO.
Jan 5, 23, 9:38 am
#11
Join Date: Nov 2022
Location: YEG
Programs: Aeroplan
Posts: 85
Not quite the J bug for me, but the PY bug.
Flew PY a few years ago on Cathay, and since then, I have always booked PY (when using cash on EVA and AC) for long haul flights as that extra recline and space is just enough to make the seat comfortable and not kill my back. I also would never pay for business simply due to being unable to afford the insane prices they usually charge (7-10k roundtrip from West Coast NA to Asia typically), and upgrade opportunities tend to not appear for me as a PY passenger with no status on relatively full flights.
Redemption-wise, I'm not looking at CPP specifically, but rather the location I want to travel to, and how much it would cost to fly PY, versus using my points and finding a lower redemption in J. Since most of my points were obtained by welcome offers, it made the most sense to me to try J first and work around it if possible, then if not, look at PY that I would have bought anyways to travel there and use points. It also helps that I am flexible on my travel dates so it's easier to achieve the J redemption. In the end, it's all about saving me hard cash by redeeming points that cost less than what a PY seat would cost.
Flew PY a few years ago on Cathay, and since then, I have always booked PY (when using cash on EVA and AC) for long haul flights as that extra recline and space is just enough to make the seat comfortable and not kill my back. I also would never pay for business simply due to being unable to afford the insane prices they usually charge (7-10k roundtrip from West Coast NA to Asia typically), and upgrade opportunities tend to not appear for me as a PY passenger with no status on relatively full flights.
Redemption-wise, I'm not looking at CPP specifically, but rather the location I want to travel to, and how much it would cost to fly PY, versus using my points and finding a lower redemption in J. Since most of my points were obtained by welcome offers, it made the most sense to me to try J first and work around it if possible, then if not, look at PY that I would have bought anyways to travel there and use points. It also helps that I am flexible on my travel dates so it's easier to achieve the J redemption. In the end, it's all about saving me hard cash by redeeming points that cost less than what a PY seat would cost.
Jan 5, 23, 9:58 am
#12
Moderator, Air Canada; FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: YYC
Programs: AC SE MM, DL PM, WS Silver, BA Bronze, Marriott Titanium, Hilton/Radisson Gold, Accor Silver
Posts: 15,128
Moderator note: Since this thread is not at all specific to AC, temporarily closed until I figure out where on FT it should be sent to.
