scaredflyer

We had a flight from Europe to YYZ, in J (paid) that we were involuntarily downgraded in to premium economy due to an equipment swap. They claimed all business passengers were paid business.

we were placed on standby late the night before. I happened to notice and called AC. They said all looked good from their end but I should ask at the check in if other flights were available.

at checkin, told they couldn’t rebook us without going to a different desk, but the supervisor came over and said “don’t worry, you’ll be in business” when we asked whether we should try to rebook through a connecting flight.

we didn’t get any confirmed seats (not even economy, which they were continuing to sell tickets for). Instead we were placed in standby for all cabin classes.

we watched the upgrade/standby list. we were numbers 1 and 2. When checkin closed, people at 5,6,7 were granted upgrades to business (they were previously confirmed standby in premium economy. I have screen shots). We were left to last minute and they weren’t even sure we’d get premium economy. Thankfully we got at least that.

to say we are frustrated is an understatement. It looks like people without paid business we’re upgraded in front of us.

I understand that some times things happen. But we were told to not try to rebook for business on another flight because it was sure we’d get on. We were also told we were 1/2 for space in business which apparently was not true.

I know we’re entitled to compensation under EU rules. What about Canadian rules? What sort of compensation should we be looking for?

The Lev

EC261 would entitle you to a 75% refund off the price of your ticket which is likely your best bet.

tbuff

I would be absolutely losing my mind if I were you. Kudos for keeping calm.

Which route was this? What was equipment change? 788

scaredflyer

trust me, I did come very close to losing my mind. I was pretty livid.

Flight was AC 835, MUC to YYZ. Went from 42 to 28 biz class I think. And yes, appears to have been an equipment change.

tbuff

That sucks. I really hope some significant compensation is incoming.

The Lev

777 to 787.

J to/from Europe has been very full this year with what appear to be paid tickets, so I'm not shocked when they clip off 14 seats that some people who had paid for J got bumped.

I'm surprised (OK maybe I shouldn't be) that they didn't proactively move you to another flight or offer compensation. They would have known of the aircraft substitution 12 or more hours before your departure.

dorakk

Second that. Kudos for keeping calm.
On the other hand, I wonder if AC staff was taking advantage of your calmness. I wonder if standby people 5, 6, 7 made a big fuss and that's how they succeeded on getting confirmed seats, and eventually upgraded to business.

yowcat

It would have been good to know how many others were in the same boat. If they had multiple there may have been priority in how they assigned the open seats. But if you were the only ones in that situation that should be quite the compensation.

By any chance did you cowtool your PNR when you were in limbo? I often look when under Airport control to see what they are doing. I had a similar situation earlier this year where the YYZ/CUN bird was downgraded (but months before). They kept me in the J cabin though without a seat assignment. This apparently meant I would be the highest priority over anyone standing by to be put on the flight or upgraded to the cabin. It would be curious to see what they did with your PNR.

scaredflyer

I also understand that things happen though given they upgraded people who were confirmed in PE, it doesn't appear that they were full with paid business. (As a side note, I don't understand why we weren't confirmed PE at least when they put us on standby. AC was still selling tickets for PE -- so there was room)

We asked to be moved both the night before by calling AC reservations (who told us they didn't have access to the system that would allow that (?!)) and the morning of (but then we were told we would "for sure" be in business, so to not bother). I should also note they never actually informed us they were bumping us until we got to the airport. The only reason I knew we were on standby was I happened to check the app. Extremely poor customer service. Zero attempt to proactively notify us or find a solution.

That's what's the most frustrating part about this -- we tried, repeatedly, to find an alternate routing with business. There were flights available (one via LHR had two seats AC was selling on the app, which would have gotten us in only about 2 hours behind schedule). We asked for compensation at the gate, nothing offered (they wouldn't even guarantee we'd get on the flight the next day in business).

We didn't cowtool the PNR unfortunately (I only recently learned about that app and don't have a login).

I sent AC an email, laying out the history, no response yet other than the automated "we'll get back to you in 45 days or so" response. I called on Sunday to escalate but still again no response yet. I'll update this thread if/when I hear back from them.

zorn

Now that it has been a few days, it is time to strip all the emotion out of what happened and laser-focus on the actual facts.

This are the things that matter:

1. You had a confirmed reservation on a flight departing from the EU.
2. The reservation was in Business Class.
3. You presented yourself for check-in on time.
4. You presented yourself for boarding on time.
5. You travelled in a class lower than Business Class.
6. The flight was longer than 3500km.
7. You paid X amount in money for the ticket, all-inclusive.

So the airline has to pay you money in the amount of 75% of X.

There is a form you can use here: https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizen...htm#next-steps

That's it.

scaredflyer

Thanks, I'm aware of this.

What is more unclear to me is what rights I have under Canadian law, as I should have a choice of law here. If anyone has thoughts on that aspect, I'd appreciate it.

mountainboy

You must be new around here :-) The airlines have been extremely successful at pushing back against the far weaker Canadian laws, and using the EU method is better.

scaredflyer

That may be true, but it would be good to know what they are in any event. I'm not particularly afraid of a fight. I am also happy to be an agent for change

flyingcrooked

small point for future reference, you can cowtool the PNR without an account. Can be handy for various purposes including easy confirmation of SQM/D.

zorn

Canadian regulations allow for a refund of the price difference between ticketed class of service and actual class of service flown.

My guess would be that 75% of the cost of the business class ticket will be larger than the difference between business class and premium economy. There would also be the contentious matter of...what is the "price" of the premium economy seat you occupied? Would it be it's price at the time you bought the ticket? Would it be the price of a last minute full fare ticket?

I don't easily see where you would get a better deal using Canadian law in this situation.