wayner92

Next Saturday night I am flying form Toronto to Paris (YYZ-CDG) AC872 on AC and then Paris to Bordeaux on Air France. I may have made my connection too tight as according to the tickets I have 95 minutes to make my connection at CDG - I am scheduled to arrive at 8:45 and depart at 10:20. I will only have a carry on bag. I am not sure if

It looks like my probability of making that connection is pretty low as this flight is very often delayed out of Toronto. For example, AC872 today has had its departure time pushed back by 3:30 - so far.

I bought my tickets separately - directly from AC and directly from Air France.

What happens if I don't make my connection at CDG? Do I have to pay for an entire new flight from Paris to Bordeaux? Will Air France give me credit for the flight that I didn't make? Is Air Canada on the hook for the cost of my flight? I am an AC MM and 50K if that matters at all.

Should I change my Air France flight from Paris-Bordeaux? It looks like I can change to the 12:25 flight for $35, which gives me over 3.5 hours to make the connection. But then if I make it to Paris without delay I am stuck with a few hours to kill at CDG. And then if my flight from YYZ is very delayed I may still have this same issue.

It looks like AC uses terminal 2A and Air France uses 2F. Any idea how long it takes to get between those terminals? And do I have to redo security? Presumably I had to do passport control, but on past trips to France they barely looked at my passport.

canadiancow

Yes, unless they have a flat tire policy or something. That's a question for the AF forum.

That's a question for the AF forum.

No.

It doesn't.

Basically, this question can be summarized as "What if I no-show my AF flight?", which is definitely a question for the AF forum.

The AC flight has nothing to do with the resolution.

Altaflyer

Change the flight now - easy. AC is not going to be that on time I would bet!

tomvancouver

I suggest that you pay $35 and change to the later flight, particularly as EF tells me the on time performance for AC872 is only 22% with a mean delay of 65 minutes (as measured over the last 2 months).. And maybe if you're one of the lucky 22% who arrive on time, you can stand by for your original flight if AF allows

Stanbury

I frequently (close to 100 times over the past several years) do a trip very similar to yours AC: YWG - CDG (via YYZ or YUL) then AF: CDG - MPL on a separate ticket, and I know CDG very well. I would never risk a time of 85 minutes between flights. As others have said, this s NOT a connection but two entirely different unrelated flights.

I would strongly advise that you book the later flight to BOD.

To answer your questions, yes, AC uses T2A and AF Schengen and domestic uses T2F. There are 2 routes from 2A to 2F, landside and airside. I have done both, and my absolute record A to F is 35 minutes using the priority (BIZ class) lanes at all points. Both routes require that you pass through both border control (Passports) and security. Landside, you would pass through border control in 2A, walk through the airport via terminal 2C and past the Sheraton hotel/SNCF station. You then pass through security at 2F. Beware, AF are very fussy about the weight of your hand baggage at 2F (less so if you are in BIZ). They will apply their limit (12 kg I think) to the total weight of all bags you are carrying. The airside option, which only works if you already have your AF boarding pass CDG-BOD, requires that you pass through security at 2A, then take the bus to 2F, where you pass through border control.

Hard to predict which is going to be faster. My technique is to take a look at the queue for passports at 2A, and if it looks reasonable then use the landside route. But you won't know how long the queues are at 2F until you get there.

As others have said you can expect no consideration whatsoever from AC or AF if you miss your flight CDG - BOD. Make it easy for yourself -- book the later BOD flight and enjoy a leisurely breakfast somewhere in CDG...

wayner92

Thanks, that is really useful info. Unfortunately, I just had to cancel this trip.

But for future info, would it make a difference if I bought both flights on an AC ticket? I didn't do that this time as the premium to add the second leg within France was much higher than buying a standalone one way ticket from AF. So if I bought the YYZ-CDG-BOD route through AC and I missed the CDG-BOD leg due to a delay on YYZ-CDG would it make a difference?

canopus27

Yes, that makes a huge difference. It doesn't really matter if you buy the entire route from AC or AF (or anyone else) ... if you buy a single ticket from YYZ to BOD (via CDG or anywhere) then that airline is responsible for getting you from YYZ to BOD. If the first flight is delayed, then it's on them to re-book you on a later flight.

If you buy two separate tickets (as you had done), one from YYZ to CDG, and second ticket (doesn't even matter if it's the same airline ... you could buy both of the tickets from AF) from CDG to BOD - then those are two separate tickets. If the first flight is delayed, it's still your responsibility to get to the second flight on time. As was mentioned above, the second airline may or may not have a "flat tire" policy allowing you to get on a later flight ... but fundamentally, it's on you to present yourself in time for the second flight.

In almost all cases, if you're booking a flight with connections then you should book the entire thing (end-to-end) as a single ticket.

tecate55

I've been following this flight for a while and, welp, this flight tonight is now expected to operate 4.5 hours late at midnight instead of 7:30PM. It hasn't been thaaaaat late, but I'd chime in that I wouldn't attempt that tight of a connection.

(I've flown YYZ-[xxx]-CDG often, but rarely with a connection. Most recently I was going to take a train from Paris after arriving from CDG within France (it was cheaper from a regional TGV station accessible by TGV), but even a 4h delay was going to be a problem).

In future, a train to Bordeaux would be 3h and could be mostly refunded, but still stuck at rescheduling at last minute rates, but it's not as bad as airlines.

Yes, but AC doesn't fly to Bordeaux, so it's likely that you'd pay a lot more for that, or take a longer route to BOD than a route through Paris.

wayner92

My girlfriend was supposed to be on the flight that was delayed last night but she found out mid-afternoon that a close relative died so we cancelled the trip. I was supposed to fly next weekend to meet her.

I was thinking about the TGV but I thought that when you are already at CDG then it is easier just to fly on to other cities in France. Because there is the issue of how to get to Gare Montparnasse from CDG. You could take a taxi or Uber but I imagine that is fairly expensive and time consuming as it seems to take about an hour. You could take the train from CDG but I believe it goes to Gare du Nord. So you would then have to get from Gare du Nort do Gare Montparnasse which is about 30 minutes in a car according to Google Maps. I guess you could take the Metro but then you are lugging suitcase(s) around on the Metro, which is a pain.

We were planning to take the TGV back from Bordeaux to Paris, as we were to spend a few days in Paris before flying home and that was only 60 Euros each and I got a complete refund.

Stanbury

Not really. AC itself does not fly to BOD (they did briefly using Rouge a few summers ago) but AC will sell you a ticket YYZ<->BOD via CDG interlining with AF on the CDG-BOD segments. This ticket would protect against delays on AC 872. For random dates on November the cheapest r/t fare YYZ-BOD on AC is $C1122.61. The fare to CDG is $C 890 and the AF fare onto BOD shows $C222. So a single AC ticket to BOD costs $4 more than separate AC AF tickets and protects you against misconnects. I would be inclined to call that a no-brainer.

wayner92

I totally agree at those prices.

But when I booked this September flight back in January for some reason there was about a $300 delta for the BOD leg on AC while the AF price for the BOD flight was around $100. But that was a long time ago, before the war in Ukraine, the spike in oil prices and the rebound in travel. But like an idiot, I waited to book the second leg and it ended up being more expensive, plus I didn't get much of a refund when I cancelled. On my AC ticket I had a $300 penalty on my Premium Economy seat.

Stranger

There should be TGVs directly from CDG to Bordeaux. A bit slower since going around Paris on slow tracks adds about one hour to the trip.

We took it some years back when AF went on strike so our connection AC to AF (on same ticket mind you) was no longer operating.

Still might have been a possible plan B if missing your connection, albeit at extra cost. Potentially covered by CC travel delay insurance?

wayner92

There is the TGV, but as I mentioned above then you have the issue of getting from CDG to Gare Montparnasse in Paris. If you are already at CDG it is probably just easier to fly onto your final destination rather than taking a taxi or train to the station in the city.

travel agent

you could have saved the penalty, by choosing a voucher.

wayner92

True, but I decided to take the cash now.