songsc

Fair. I can notice that sometime crew members try to be as discreet as possible, while sometime they don’t. One time a crew member mentioned there’re 4 extra business class meals, then another member took out the manifest, and later I saw 4 passengers were brought to J. That was back in 2014 I believe.

Bohemian1

I had a situation where an SD was asked to seat a Y pax in J. By me.

I'll skip the details, but the person I was travelling with from LHR back to YVR (both ending separate European business trips) got a call very early on the morning of our return that her Mom had quite literally dropped dead. It was not expected and she was a total basket case. I managed to get her to the airport and through security and to the gate, although she was in rough shape.

She was flying in Y and I was in paid J. I thought that there was one unsold seat in J, so asked to see the SD on boarding. She was super sympathetic and tried to get my companion into J and seated near me. As it turned out, the 'unsold' seat was in fact assigned to a deadheading Captain. I offered to swap seats but my companion said No. But the SD went out of her way to make sure that my companion had a lot of space in Y and was looked after for the entire flight.

So, while the 'upgrade' didn't occur, in this situation the SD was perfectly willing to use whatever latitude she had to make this happen.

expert7700

On the flip side, I had a too-strict SD once:

​​​​Medical issue on flight from SCL-YYZ.m. The person involved stabilized but needed constant care, oxygen, and was moved to the front seat of their Y cabin (displacing the whole row). I believe at various times they were lying down in the bulkhead area.

​​​​​​When things calmed down, I asked the SD why they weren't reseated in an unused J seat Answer was they aren't allowed to move people to better than their ticketed cabin, and it would disrupt the J pax.

//I was once given an onboard upgrade on UA, island hopper. The cabin crew pushed back, but the pilot (augmented crew) sitting next to them said that he authorized the upgrade to continue our chat, and if his decision was overruled, he would deplane.

canadiancow

If I paid for J to get a good sleep and the crew decides to use the cabin as an ICU, I want a refund.

I'm not saying they shouldn't do it. But I'd want a refund.

jugaadkabaap

curious on this !

Once doors are closed - crew have absolute final say in how the cabin is used. Contract of carriage is not broken and service is rendered as advertised - ie seats are working, F&B is served.

From what I know, advertised J ticket don’t come with “guaranteed sleep enabling mechanism / environment”. I hear you in saying you are entitled to some compensation for the disruption / chaos (unintended due to an onboard emergency) - but a refund imho is a bit of stretch.

canadiancow

You know what, you're right. Nowhere does it advertise (in my very cursory check) any "environment" or sleep.

And yeah, I'm not saying they can't do whatever they want. Just that if I'm paying for J, it's probably in large part to get some sleep.

jugaadkabaap

On that note (in aforesaid context), whatever they are doing is probably in large part of whatever they are supposed to do (and not whatever they want).

Passenger safety comes way ahead of passenger comfort

YOWgary

One imagines you'd lose more sleep from a diversion?

canadiancow

And I'd still be looking for massive compensation/refund.

I'm not saying they shouldn't do what they did. Just that the whole reason for buying the product goes out the window.

ACYYZ/SD

These posts make me cringe. Let's put the situation of the Ukrainian Refugee aside for the moment. There are often legitimate reasons for "move-ups". There are flaws in our computer system, contract agent unfamiliarity of procedures and processes and other variables which do not always match Customers to their paid for and expected seating. I can think of two recent occurrences where grateful Customers were relocated to their proper accommodations after the door was closed and after all appropriate documentation was meticulously checked (it's not always possible during the chaos of boarding) and documented to avoid future occurrence. Please do not presume in all cases to know that you are fully aware of the behind the scene details and that some other underlying agenda is at play. As yyckerr pointed out, the power to act is a positive thing.

canadiancow

What circumstances would the "paid for and expected seating" not be what's on their boarding pass?

Something like someone on a J fare, but J was full, so they were seated in Y, but then someone no-showed, so there ended up being an empty seat, and the gate agents didn't handle it?

I recently had a scenario (before anyone asks, I haven't written in yet because I have a bigger issue on that bound that needs resolution first) where I bought a ticket on AC.com that explicitly said "You will be seated in Business Class." on a partner (non-codeshare) flight.

The confirmation email said "You will be seated in Business Class."

I had a very polite discussion with the check-in agents who said "nope, it's economy". But then were kinda shocked I was in business on all the AC segments.

Is this a scenario where I should have showed the booking confirmation to the flight attendants and hoped for mercy?

(I think it was an AC website glitch that said "business class" because it booked into P on that airline, which to AC, means business class, which means it wasn't the "paid for" seating).

jugaadkabaap

Let's say your argument of there cannot be any circumstances where "the "paid for and expected seating" not be what's on their boarding pass?" is accurate.

If a SD / other senior staff is voluntarily or on request upgrading a pax to a higher cabin, the reasons can be broadly summarized to the following

1. Staff knows the pax very well - something like friend / family and is doing it for personal / selfish gains.
2. Staff don't know the pax at all - but is inclined to accommodate the request because staff doesn't know the AC Policy / Rules.
3. Staff don't know the pax at all - but is inclined to accommodate the request or feel the need to do it proactively because he / she in her capacity knows its the right thing to do and he / she is confident that they can explain the rationale to anyone higher up if and when it is questioned.

Argument of theft of service or anything of that sort only comes in (1) where the staff intentionally misuse his / her authority for personal gain. Theft is only substantiated when the act is accompanied by an ill intent or dishonesty. (2) can be considered as a screw up by the staff and if AC has very strict policy against such upgrades, those staff can be warned / penalized as per standard protocol. When it comes to situation (3) - the entire act of employee is kosher and within his / her authority as the Team Leader and highest in hierarchy (considering Captain / FO/ SO is in the cockpit). If an employee is putting their career / seniority / other benefits at risk by going against a corporate policy - then they will have adequate reasons to do that and they will detail it to higher management as and when necessary.

In short, it is too shallow to assume that every single instance of an upgrade falls into (1) or (2) - there can be odd instances where the SD made a judgement call based on a dynamic situation. Yes, majority large organization has rules & rulebooks - but they also have exceptions & also empower their staff to do the right thing based on the situation.

canadiancow

That's not what I just said. I was asking an AC SD what the actual circumstances could be.

jugaadkabaap

Can't speak of all instances from a rev pax standpoint but something that comes on top of my mind is anyone who is holding legacy aeroplan PNR's (yes some of us do) - you are eligible for airport standby for business class when your ticket is booked under I fare basis but actual ticket is X. I will imagine the odds of this being honored by the gate system is close to none as I had to get many AE supervisors involved to change to higher cabin (when inventory becomes available) prior to flying.

There can be a hypothetical situation where Pax was unable to get revised BP issued at gate because the systems weren't cooperating. Upon boarding, approached the SD and explained the situation - showed the original ticket & SD being a veteran knew the old policy and agreed to honor it at his/her discretion since the J cabin is almost empty and the pax had "paid for Business fare"

canadiancow

That falls under the category of "gate agent couldn't/wouldn't do it, but SD is expected to understand the rules and figure it out?"

How are they supposed to know it's a legacy booking?

Like this is just so preposterous. If I have access to 1A, I can tell if your booking is legacy, because I know the differences. I suspect 99% of employees have no idea. And I'm not convinced you'd still be allowed the gate upgrade anyway.

I have had a Y BP given to me at the gate, with "Y" scratched out, and "J" written. Same for the seat number. But I still argue that was the GA doing the job, not an SD/FA. Though in that case, it was definitely "uh I guess go across and turn left?" with a confused look.

Every scenario I can think of where there are empty J seats and you're entitled to J but seated in Y is an instance of "GA didn't do their job". And I definitely think GAs do things wrong a lot. I've literally seen a situation of a paid J pax rebooked from an all-Y to a multi-cabin aircraft, having to argue with the GA about their entitlement to J. Which would be "the most legitimate" reason for a FA to upgrade them. But it's still not something that I expected 99.9% of crew members (maybe excluding those who are active on FT) of actually being able to understand when reading documents - and if they assume the documents are genuine.

I'm aware of (100% confirmed) cases of SDs pulling up commuting crew to J. I don't even really have a problem with that. But I trust the average SD to be able to identify a crew member (the RAIC is likely sufficient, assuming they're not in uniform). I don't trust the average SD to be able to identify a "legacy Aeroplan booking" or even "paid J seated in Y".

I just view this whole thing as someone walking on board, saying "I deserve to sit up front", and then pulling out paperwork to try to justify it. Look at all the nonsense in the "SE drink+snack benefit" thread. That's about $15. I just do not believe trying to convince an FA that you deserve a higher cabin is going to get you anywhere. In fact, I have heard crew tell passengers to "go talk to the gate agent; we can't upgrade you". It's just going to create a confrontation before the flight even leaves the ground.

If an SD wants to upgrade someone, and believes it's justified (or doesn't care), that's on them. If it disturbs me, I'm writing in. If I don't notice, I'm not.