Service Director onboard upgrade

Old Apr 22, 2022, 3:07 pm
  #16  
 
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I am surprised to learn that this is considered theft of services. I was recently on a flight from YVR to YUL in late march seated in PE when a gentleman approached the FA asking to move from Y to PE as the PE cabin was quite open. FA called the SD and he told the SD that he was connecting to CDG and had a tight connection and wanted to sit as close to the door as possible. The SD told him he could move to PE after meal service which he did. Funny thing is the gentleman exited with me at YUL, he did not have a connecting flight. I asked him about his connecting flight as we were exiting and he told me he does it all the time so he can get off the plan quicker if the PE cabin is not full, he told me sometimes he is even able to get upgraded for the full flight. I was quite shocked as I had used upgrade certificates and he sat in the seat across from me and was served free drinks after he moved up. I had wondered if this might have been a frequent occurrence when flight loads were light?

Then to find out the SD could be fired over it? I am quite surprised as I would not put my job on the line and the SD was quite casual about facilitating the upgrade.
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Old Apr 22, 2022, 3:12 pm
  #17  
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Originally Posted by ddaley
I am surprised to learn that this is considered theft of services. I was recently on a flight from YVR to YUL in late march seated in PE when a gentleman approached the FA asking to move from Y to PE as the PE cabin was quite open. FA called the SD and he told the SD that he was connecting to CDG and had a tight connection and wanted to sit as close to the door as possible. The SD told him he could move to PE after meal service which he did. Funny thing is the gentleman exited with me at YUL, he did not have a connecting flight. I asked him about his connecting flight as we were exiting and he told me he does it all the time so he can get off the plan quicker if the PE cabin is not full, he told me sometimes he is even able to get upgraded for the full flight. I was quite shocked as I had used upgrade certificates and he sat in the seat across from me and was served free drinks after he moved up. I had wondered if this might have been a frequent occurrence when flight loads were light?

Then to find out the SD could be fired over it? I am quite surprised as I would not put my job on the line and the SD was quite casual about facilitating the upgrade.
I would absolutely write in.
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Old Apr 22, 2022, 4:14 pm
  #18  
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I wouldn't write in ... I would try and get the SD name so we can find out her schedule and be on her flights.
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Old Apr 22, 2022, 4:45 pm
  #19  
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Can't the SD see a flight manifest indicating connections? It should be easy to see that the guy who asked to be moved up while claiming he had a tight connection wasn't connecting anywhere.
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Old Apr 22, 2022, 4:49 pm
  #20  
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Originally Posted by MSPeconomist
Can't the SD see a flight manifest indicating connections? It should be easy to see that the guy who asked to be moved up while claiming he had a tight connection wasn't connecting anywhere.
My best example of this would be one time when I had LGA-YYZ, then YYZ-SFO, on separate bookings (first was booked, non-refundable, before I realized I didn't need to be in YYZ, and this was the cheapest option).

They screwed up the ticket of my LGA-YYZ, and refused to board me. They put me on the next flight after sorting it out. So my huge buffer for the separate bookings became uncomfortably small, even for me.

To anyone at AC, YYZ was my final destination. But I had a VERY tight connection. I was also in literally the last row of the plane (and that was also something I was trying to get fixed).

I don't do separate-PNR connections often, but I've done them enough that I would never discount someone just because the SD can't see the connection.
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Old Apr 22, 2022, 5:42 pm
  #21  
 
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Originally Posted by canadiancow
On a TLV-YYZ, due to a security issue (they had no idea how to handle my insulin pump).
Been travelling with one for 20+ yrs now. They usually just wand me, make me rub my pump in both hands and do the swab test thingie.

Reminds me of the time it tested positive for explosives and I got to do a strip search at EWR...

And the time in DEL they had no idea what it was even after I tried to explain, and they ended on it being an MP3 player.

Or the guy can't remember where starts pulling at the infusion set and CGM sensor, and I had to stay Stop!
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Last edited by YYJMSP; Apr 22, 2022 at 5:49 pm
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Old Apr 22, 2022, 5:57 pm
  #22  
 
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Why wouldn't the SD have sat the person in 1A...an (apparently) unsold seat?
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Old Apr 22, 2022, 7:33 pm
  #23  
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Originally Posted by pmblinn
Why wouldn't the SD have sat the person in 1A...an (apparently) unsold seat?
This is part of the reason I think there's way more to what happened than what OP knows.
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Old Apr 23, 2022, 12:34 am
  #24  
 
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Originally Posted by eqeqeqx
In that case, perhaps the OP should delete his post to reduce the possibility of somebody getting in serious trouble, especially since it does not seem to have been a huge deal for the op.

Somebody did a nice gesture to a stranger in sad and very unusual circumstances, and nobody seems to have been inconvenienced much by the gesture. It would be sad if said gesture would later on result in bad consequences for the guy who did the gesture.
Add to this that we do not know all of the facts, such as who the person was, or if the flight was initially booked in J but downgraded to Y. For all we know, this change could have been authorized by an appropriate manager. There has been a lot of VIP traffic in and out of the region and people who are now described as "refugees" are some of the Ukraine's leading figures in scientific research that western countries are trying to attract, so there may be some activity going that we do not see.
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Old Apr 23, 2022, 2:12 am
  #25  
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Originally Posted by yyckerr
My personal opinion, regardless of collective bargaining agreement terms or otherwise, is that great organizations empower their people to make good decisions. Part of a decision being defined as a good one is that there were no unintended consequences and that overall the decision resulted in a net positive.

My preference would be to see more of this in the world.
Originally Posted by zorn
As long as I get what I paid for, and my unexpected new seat assignment isn't objectively inferior, I would not have any reaction to the seating position of any other passenger on an airplane.
Originally Posted by ddaley
I am surprised to learn that this is considered theft of services.

[...]

Then to find out the SD could be fired over it? I am quite surprised as I would not put my job on the line and the SD was quite casual about facilitating the upgrade.
While airline seats are a perishable product, and theoretically could be given away with little negative consequence to the airline, in practice, there are several concerns.

There are very few people on any flight who wouldn't prefer an upgraded seat to one in a lower cabin. How do you set guidelines for your employees on how to give away something that everyone wants in a way that doesn't negatively impact all the people who don't get the upgrade? For instance, do you annoy a bunch of SEMMs in PY that someone in Y got a free J upgrade because they told the SD a sob story about being a refugee, or having terminal cancer, or losing their job? The worthiness of an upgrade is highly subjective.

By giving things away for free, you train people not to pay for them. If SDs upgrade people because of status or because they see people often on the same routes, those people may quit paying for J or more expensive Y tickets because they know they can upgraded on cheap tickets by staff who know or like them. Even without that type of relationship, some number of people will cut back their spending because their chances of getting a free upgrade went up. Those who've been on this board a while may remember a certain AC rep saying that those who got in to J on eUps were cheapening the cabin. DL also noted many years ago that it only sold about 10% of J/F seats, because their elites had gotten used to getting them for free. AC has lots of ways to get in to J without buying a J fare - eUp, LMU, bid with cash, bid with points, SAUA (although currently suspended, or course, for Aeroplan), etc.

Third, there's little to no oversight of SDs. The pilots don't come back to do headcount in different cabins. There's no inventory that has to be accounted for. How do you have confidence that SDs aren't giving all the empty seats away to their friends and families, and/or people who slip them $50? If a waiter is giving away huge amounts of expensive booze to help his buddies or boost his tips, at least you should eventually notice that the Glengoolie Blue disappears really fast whenever Cyril's waiting tables, and do something about it.

Even if you assume SDs will use this power reasonably, what happens when word gets out that this is policy? Think of all the articles on how if you ask nicely or tell a great story, AC will just upgrade you. Then think about all the people crowding the galley as the flight is boarding or trying to push back, clamouring for an upgrade, and the havoc that will wreak.

I can't tell you for sure that AC gives SDs zero latitude in this area - I've not seen the policies myself, only been told what they are by someone who has - but I think there are a lot of good reasons why it's not a great idea to give broad discretion to them.
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Old Apr 23, 2022, 9:24 am
  #26  
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Originally Posted by pmblinn
Why wouldn't the SD have sat the person in 1A...an (apparently) unsold seat?
The person occupying my seat was seated across from a companion. I did not see the companion's boarding pass so I can't speculate as to whether the companion was also summarily upgraded or whether they were already booked in J. Seats around/across from 1A were all occupied by other passengers.
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Old Apr 23, 2022, 9:38 am
  #27  
 
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All I can say is I have witnessed cabin crew (yes, not just SD) directing people who hold Y BP to J seats or PY seats, for a variety of reasons, and I am not talking about legitimate reasons such as Y passenger helping out with a medical emergency, etc.
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Old Apr 23, 2022, 10:30 am
  #28  
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Originally Posted by songsc
All I can say is I have witnessed cabin crew (yes, not just SD) directing people who hold Y BP to J seats or PY seats, for a variety of reasons, and I am not talking about legitimate reasons such as Y passenger helping out with a medical emergency, etc.
On AC?

In my 627 J and 33 F flights, all but one of which occurred after becoming an FTer and actually paying attention to this stuff, I have seen it happen twice. Once into F on an (obviously) different airline. And once into J on AC. Bearing in mind that the vast vast vast majority of those 627 J flights (I don't have those stats, but definitely over 500, probably 550) were on AC.
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Old Apr 23, 2022, 10:46 am
  #29  
 
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Originally Posted by canadiancow
On AC?

In my 627 J and 33 F flights, all but one of which occurred after becoming an FTer and actually paying attention to this stuff, I have seen it happen twice. Once into F on an (obviously) different airline. And once into J on AC. Bearing in mind that the vast vast vast majority of those 627 J flights (I don't have those stats, but definitely over 500, probably 550) were on AC.

Yes, I am only talking about AC.

Its quite discreet most of the time, but if you pay some attention, its not hard to figure out either.

The chance of SD upgrading a complete stranger is quite low, but if that does happen, there is generally a noticeable conversation about why passenger asking for such upgrade or why crew offering such upgrade.

Its more likely that the crew already knew the passenger. In this case its much easier to notice as there are likely gonna be multiple interactions that dont quite resemble the normal interactions between the passenger and crew.

On another note, I am not sure if its indeed the policy that SD can be fired for randomly upgrading a passenger, or whats considered as random, or if this policy has been around for long, as I have seen multiple instances of crew members, not just SD, quite openly upgraded passengers based on status, after the door closed. That was back in 2012-2015 BTW.

Last edited by Adam Smith; Apr 23, 2022 at 11:16 am Reason: Merge consecutive posts by same user
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Old Apr 23, 2022, 11:21 am
  #30  
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Originally Posted by songsc
On another note, I am not sure if its indeed the policy that SD can be fired for randomly upgrading a passenger, or whats considered as random, or if this policy has been around for long, as I have seen multiple instances of crew members, not just SD, quite openly upgraded passengers based on status, after the door closed. That was back in 2012-2015 BTW.
I never said "randomly". I don't know what the actual term in the CBA is - "unauthorized", "inappropriate", "out of policy", something else - but I'm highly confident, based on my AC source, that this provision exists.

Again, that doesn't mean SDs have no latitude to upgrade someone, but to the extent it exists, it's very limited.

Some SDs may still do it, because they're confident their reasons are justifiable, because they're not aware it's a fireable offence, or because they don't think there's any risk of it actually coming back to bite them (see my previous post re lack of supervision).

But the policy definitely exists.
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