The Lev

Actually delay was about 2-1/2 hours (9:00 to ~11:30) and then we went to be de-iced slowing things down further.

Finally landed at 13:05, so by the time we got to the arrival gate in ZRH we were 2-3/4 hours late.

zrh2yvr

When I heard the words on ATC - I really thought it had to be somewhere in the back. There were some roudy Swiss (I know - seems impossible) at the gate . . but . after the words were said - then the SD came out of the cockpit and went to 4K.

Then I remembered that before going to the cockpit - the SD was at 4K and talking to the passenger for quite some time. Almost for 5 minutes straight before push back and then while we were taxiing. As the SD then finished talking to 4K - 3K and 4K did high-fives - and the SD went to the cockpit - - and then the Captain radioed we were going to continue.

So - there was probably some type of power struggle between "important PAX" in 4K and the SD - (who frankly was not the best I have seen).

Going back to previous post - I was on my iphone LiveATC APP. It's not usually so interesting but it can be a good way to hear about clearance / pushback delays and in this case . . potential return to gate.

As an aside - I have head the ATC say somethings (i.e. in Zurich - pushback delayed by 40 minutes) and then had the Captain come on and say we will have a 15 minute delay. Must be because if you say 15 - people expect it - then they don't start their stopwatch - then by the time they start to realize those 15 minutes are going slowly - it is time to push 40 mins later . . . . but if you tell people there is a 40 minute delay - even if precisely accurate - people will be upset!!!

Bohemian1

It's almost always a "15 minute delay", at least on AC. The question is how many 15 minute delays.

capedreamer

Thank you! Very curious to know what was being discussed that almost resulted in the pax getting kicked off the flight.

And going to download the LiveATC app now. For precisely the reason you outlined. I've been on so many flights the last year where the pilot announces a "few / 10 / 15" minute delay that ends up stretching into over an hour. Sometimes, even the AC app / email / text notifications are more forthcoming than what is announced over the PA. A delay is annoying enough, but being cagey about its true extent just makes it worse. Give us the truth!

24left

Well, I count time based on scheduled departure time to the start of the take-off roll or when wheels lift of the runway regardless of pit stops at the YYZ Spray & Wash.

But I was happy to see you and your well-rested and suntanned Fin 703 get airborne and on your way. ✈️

Short hair Francis

😆😆
But nope, not an AC exclusive, just in different terms 🤣
AA lies to passengers: rolling delays and false departure times

The only useful piece of advice I can provide is try to keep a sheet of delays.
Some delays are easier to predict than others and time to fix is rather standardized.

I say by experience, airplane circult breakers faults are the toughest cookie to predict ☹️

Just wait until Air Canada gives you a truly innovative delay one day LOL . 😂
Real life experience from 2017

Thank You for flying Air Canada, we are always innovating new ways to delay your flight. 😆😆😆
Today's mystery delay, your pushback truck won't start 😞 and needs to be tow away for a different pushback truck to be used 😒😒😒

FlY2XS

For sure, always went out of my way not to have anything checked coming into Pearson before the Pandemic. Too many 50+ minutes wait for my PRIORITY?? luggage to pop out in the second wave of orange tags. Never waited that long anywhere else, even no status in routine Y. YVR hit 40 minutes back during construction a few years ago, but everyone thought it was ridiculous at that.

Symmetre

My favourite is when they insist it's just a 15 minute delay, yet the inbound aircraft hasn't even left the other side of the country yet.

24left

@Symmetre
Ah yes, AC Time, as I noted here

July 30 2021
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/33451938-post219.html

Quote:

*****

Back to ground handling issues.....

On the ramp and those servicing AC aircraft (and handling bags), are the staff AC employees, YYZ employees, a mix of both?

I also note that another airline (major US3) has current job postings for some of their hubs, offering $10,000 and $15,000 signing bonuses for ramp staff. Would offering more at YYZ make a difference?
.

24left

TR from Sat Jan 22 including time stamps of the AC Flight Notifications, the info and times in them, EF data, some photos and comments from the captain.

Mid-flight, I saw the captain in the galley and thanked him for the frequent updates.


Here is the sequence of emails I received, including time of email, reason for delay, changes to departure times and changes to arrival times.

09:04
We're sorry as your flight with us has a revised time due to: Delay under investigation.

Original Flight Time:
AC105
Departing Toronto (YYZ) on ...@ 09:00
Arriving in Vancouver (YVR) on...@ 10:58

Revised Flight Time:
AC105
Departing Toronto (YYZ) on ...@ 09:00
Arriving in Vancouver (YVR) on ….@ 11:18


09:04
We're sorry as your flight with us has a revised time due to: Delay under investigation.

Revised Flight Time:
AC105
Departing Toronto (YYZ) on …..@ 09:15
Arriving in Vancouver (YVR) on …..@ 11:23


09:23
We're sorry as your flight with us has a revised time.

Revised Flight Time:
AC105
Departing Toronto (YYZ) on…..@ 09:15
Arriving in Vancouver (YVR) on …..@ 11:33


09:42
We're sorry as your flight with us has a revised time due to: Delay under investigation.

Revised Flight Time:
AC105
Departing Toronto (YYZ) on ….@ 10:00
Arriving in Vancouver (YVR) on ….@ 12:08


09:54
We're sorry as your flight with us has a revised time due to: Delay under investigation.

Revised Flight Time:
AC105
Departing Toronto (YYZ) on ….@ 10:15
Arriving in Vancouver (YVR) on …..@ 12:23


10:34
We're sorry as your flight with us has a revised time due to: Airport limitations.

Revised Flight Time:
AC105
Departing Toronto (YYZ) on ….@ 10:14
Arriving in Vancouver (YVR) on …..@ 12:23


The captain made a number of announcements, keeping us all up to date as best he could.

Initially, we were told there was a delay and shortage of staff on the ramp to load luggage. Later on we were told AC "had to find us a push-cart". Then we were told the APU wasn't working. At that point, the cabin was already very cold. The captain then explained the process of how they would attempt to start the engine, the issue with power and other related details. Eventually, I hear some spooling from engine 1. Then later on the captain said we'd be stopping at de-icing for a spray.

While the captain was mentioning ramp crews, I was looking out the window. This was the sequence from 09:10-09:13
They came, they looked at us, they spoke to each other and they left. And yes, I know that there are different crews who are licensed for different tasks.








09:41
We are still sitting there but colourful birds are passing by.




We turned onto the runway and started take-off roll at 10:41 am.




Our fine captain made up some time at we arrived about 20 minutes earlier than the delayed time in AC's email.

Interesting detail from EF. Note the multiple reasons for the delays. I'd love to know what's on the menu for "non-scheduled maintenance".

Short hair Francis

You have a lull between 9:10-9:41.
I have an initial guess what that "Non-Scheduled Maintenance" can be.

24left, do you remember when the rampers actually started loading?

In a delay report sense, initially reporting the delay as Loading/Unloading since rampers didn't show up is correct.

edmond00

I can feel that, a lot of delay due to the ground agent, I reminder when I fly YEG - YYZ after landing we wait for an hour the reason is there is no ground staff

YYCNoob

I was on AC157 on Jan 15, in the text message it said the delay was due to weather. By the time the message came out, the cargo doors haven't closed... so I'd imagine it's a ground handling delay, wonder if that would classify as "weather".

24left

I see today's AC 105 had a delay due to "Cargo Preparation/ Documentation".
Who is responsible for that?

Short hair Francis

Most likely reasons for "Cargo Preparation/ Documentation"

- Missing Cargo Docs, there needs to be hand-off of catalog envelope(s) with cargo docs inside.
Ask a SD to show you next time on a widebody

or

- Someone towed the cargo to the ramp lately
Cargo is supposed to be delivered to the ramp by T-xx prior to scheduled departure time.
For hell, it aint the rampers fault if someone towed it over late 😆

Caveat, I can also be slightly off since my experience is int'l, not domestic.

Funny enough AC is hiring a Operations Specialist, for assigning the blame per say. 😆😆