Is Canadian Air Travel really that bad?
So family and I went to Toronto for thanksgiving. We did the AC status match thing, so my wife would have shown as 50K and myself and 75K - little flying_geek has UA silver. We flew MIA-YYZ - and YYZ-YUL-MIA.
The first thing I found really surprising is that as elites, one can not select seats on a standard economy fare - whatever that is - but it doesn’t sound like an economy light fare. Seemingly your can’t even select premium seats at check-in if available (without paying extra) The AC check-in is behind Lufthansa in terminal J in MIA - I did not find any signage suggesting that. At check-in, we were told the Avianca lounge is available. I even said “oh, they reopened”? (They didn’t) - we ended up sitting in row 29 or so - it took well over 80 minutes post take off to get drink service. They didn’t start in Y for almost 65 minutes. one of the 75K options is free internet - picked that - instructions state you connect to AC Wi-Fi or Rouge Wi-Fi and then activate the service - Gogo support eventually explained that Rouge flights don’t qualify. On the flight back, I figured arriving 100 minutes before departure for a domestic flight (YYZ-YUL) should provide plenty time to get some breakfast in the ML lounge. The “business class” check in took 35 minutes, priority security exactly the same time - which left enough time to go to the lounge, grab a few things and board. Drink service on the YYZ-YUL flight was actually quick, free Wi-Fi worked too. Connecting in YUL to MIA was a nightmare again. We had 75 minutes due to the YYZ-YUL flight being delayed. Was told there was no priority security though somehow some people somehow were let into the “priority” lane - and got ahead. I asked the “supervisor” how that is possible - the guy looked a little like a Mossad reject and told me I should respect him and I am not allowed to be angry. I told him I am very much allowed and even entitled to be angry - I can’t insult him, yell at him, threaten him - but I am surely allowed to be angry (he conceded that point). I also feel entitled to politely question his ability to manage this operation. He blamed Covid and offered to call the police. Had I not been with family, I would have played the game and taken the later flight to FLL. Made it to the gate with 10 minutes to spare (I have global entry) while wife and kid made it to the gate exactly at departure time - was able to convince the gate agents not to give away their seats for waiting stand bys. (Guess one success story) - flight left gate about 20 minutes late. Did I miss something? Did I get atypically unlucky with those flights - or has air travel in Canada really gotten worse than even in the US? |
Originally Posted by flying_geek
(Post 33765532)
So family and I went to Toronto for thanksgiving. We did the AC status match thing, so my wife would have shown as 50K and myself and 75K - little flying_geek has UA silver. We flew MIA-YYZ - and YYZ-YUL-MIA.
The first thing I found really surprising is that as elites, one can not select seats on a standard economy fare - whatever that is - but it doesn’t sound like an economy light fare. Seemingly your can’t even select premium seats at check-in if available (without paying extra) The AC check-in is behind Lufthansa in terminal J in MIA - I did not find any signage suggesting that. At check-in, we were told the Avianca lounge is available. I even said “oh, they reopened”? (They didn’t) - we ended up sitting in row 29 or so - it took well over 80 minutes post take off to get drink service. They didn’t start in Y for almost 65 minutes. one of the 75K options is free internet - picked that - instructions state you connect to AC Wi-Fi or Rouge Wi-Fi and then activate the service - Gogo support eventually explained that Rouge flights don’t qualify. On the flight back, I figured arriving 100 minutes before departure for a domestic flight (YYZ-YUL) should provide plenty time to get some breakfast in the ML lounge. The “business class” check in took 35 minutes, priority security exactly the same time - which left enough time to go to the lounge, grab a few things and board. Drink service on the YYZ-YUL flight was actually quick, free Wi-Fi worked too. Connecting in YUL to MIA was a nightmare again. We had 75 minutes due to the YYZ-YUL flight being delayed. Was told there was no priority security though somehow some people somehow were let into the “priority” lane - and got ahead. I asked the “supervisor” how that is possible - the guy looked a little like a Mossad reject and told me I should respect him and I am not allowed to be angry. I told him I am very much allowed and even entitled to be angry - I can’t insult him, yell at him, threaten him - but I am surely allowed to be angry (he conceded that point). I also feel entitled to politely question his ability to manage this operation. He blamed Covid and offered to call the police. Had I not been with family, I would have played the game and taken the later flight to FLL. Made it to the gate with 10 minutes to spare (I have global entry) while wife and kid made it to the gate exactly at departure time - was able to convince the gate agents not to give away their seats for waiting stand bys. (Guess one success story) - flight left gate about 20 minutes late. Did I miss something? Did I get atypically unlucky with those flights - or has air travel in Canada really gotten worse than even in the US? |
Originally Posted by flying_geek
(Post 33765532)
Did I miss something? Did I get atypically unlucky with those flights - or has air travel in Canada really gotten worse than even in the US?
|
This sounds fairly typical for a transborder connection via YUL or YYZ. I find I generally misconnect about 50% of the time when doing a domestic to transborder (or vice-versa) connection, so it is really one of the weakest connection points of the AC network, and many pax who originate in YYZ or YUL and typically fly direct don't realize what a hassle those transborder connections are. The experience is generally much better if you're flying direct or doing an Intl to Intl connection or a Canada domestic flight.
|
Originally Posted by sydneyracquelle
(Post 33765690)
Moved from Canada to USA 20 years ago. I am always shocked at how much bad service Canadians are willing to put up with with many industries being oligopolies. Cellphones and airlines come to mind. They just don’t have any basis of comparison.
OP - security is outside AC’s control. And the lack of priority lanes is a COVID thing - think they’re just severely understaffed, so it’s only open to Nexus/trusted travellers (even J pax don’t have access in some airports - like YVR). For the rest, understand that AC views it’s Y ops - particularly domestic/transborder as ULCC pax (despite the fares being mainline). There is a relatively higher level of contempt for Y pax writ large - along the lines of the premium-focused EU3 (until the ME3 shook things up) - as opposed to the US3 levels of indifference - although the latter are much better at Y customer service recovery after IRROPs. The meal/drink service times probably have something to do with the number of cabin crew they carry, or the way they allocate them across cabins, but yes, wait times for meals and drinks are exponentially higher on AC if you aren’t in the first third of the Y cabin, than they are on any EU airline. Bottom line: if you intend to fly Y on AC ex-US, you’re better off on just about any other airline unless your AC ticket is heavily discounted. If you fly J, it’ll be alright in normal times. PY is a wash - depending on where you want to go, a Y detour to Canada may or may not be worth it. |
As others have pointed out, security / lack of priority lanes is not an AC issue. Nexus improves the travel experience but COVID has clearly have an impact. It's also important to recognize that Canada's approach to COVID is quite different vs the US so things like getting staff to return to work (and open up more lanes) inherently impacts the overall travel experience. I recently flew domestic. For the first segment I just went through security normally and joined the herd. The next segment I made sure I had Nexus card in hand and showed it to the CBSA person so I could join this line instead of that line.
AC has very much become a carrier where you get what you pay for. If you try to save $$$ and insert those little connections, you'll save some cash but you'll end up paying in other ways. Onboard the aircraft, well no matter the carrier, there's always a difference sitting at the back or at the front of the bus. |
Originally Posted by flying_geek
(Post 33765532)
So family and I went to Toronto for thanksgiving. We did the AC status match thing, so my wife would have shown as 50K and myself and 75K - little flying_geek has UA silver. We flew MIA-YYZ - and YYZ-YUL-MIA.
The first thing I found really surprising is that as elites, one can not select seats on a standard economy fare - whatever that is - but it doesn’t sound like an economy light fare. Seemingly your can’t even select premium seats at check-in if available (without paying extra) The AC check-in is behind Lufthansa in terminal J in MIA - I did not find any signage suggesting that. At check-in, we were told the Avianca lounge is available. I even said “oh, they reopened”? (They didn’t) - we ended up sitting in row 29 or so - it took well over 80 minutes post take off to get drink service. They didn’t start in Y for almost 65 minutes. one of the 75K options is free internet - picked that - instructions state you connect to AC Wi-Fi or Rouge Wi-Fi and then activate the service - Gogo support eventually explained that Rouge flights don’t qualify. On the flight back, I figured arriving 100 minutes before departure for a domestic flight (YYZ-YUL) should provide plenty time to get some breakfast in the ML lounge. The “business class” check in took 35 minutes, priority security exactly the same time - which left enough time to go to the lounge, grab a few things and board. Drink service on the YYZ-YUL flight was actually quick, free Wi-Fi worked too. Connecting in YUL to MIA was a nightmare again. We had 75 minutes due to the YYZ-YUL flight being delayed. Was told there was no priority security though somehow some people somehow were let into the “priority” lane - and got ahead. I asked the “supervisor” how that is possible - the guy looked a little like a Mossad reject and told me I should respect him and I am not allowed to be angry. I told him I am very much allowed and even entitled to be angry - I can’t insult him, yell at him, threaten him - but I am surely allowed to be angry (he conceded that point). I also feel entitled to politely question his ability to manage this operation. He blamed Covid and offered to call the police. Had I not been with family, I would have played the game and taken the later flight to FLL. Made it to the gate with 10 minutes to spare (I have global entry) while wife and kid made it to the gate exactly at departure time - was able to convince the gate agents not to give away their seats for waiting stand bys. (Guess one success story) - flight left gate about 20 minutes late. Did I miss something? Did I get atypically unlucky with those flights - or has air travel in Canada really gotten worse than even in the US? Covid for some reason has been an excellent excuse for incompetence, poor services, mistakes, delays etc . Things just take longer as there are many who are still afraid and or have anxiety issues to be near people. You cant sit side by side in an MLL for a bit, but it's Ok to sit side by side nine seats across on an aircraft for hours. As an Elite member, you should know what you are entitled to and know the rules and benefits. This site is a great educational tool as AC employees may not know certain things, but here there are a lot of season flyers who know more than employees. Flying today you need to be steadfast, informed, and willing to be brave enough, in a Canadian politeness attitude of course to question and in many cases educate or inform those who are in positions of authority. Just because one is in a uniform or position of authority does not make them superior or knowledgeable. I have always said just because you are educated does not mean you are smart! In Short, I have had excellent and poor service on AC and United.....I think Canadian carriers are better than US carriers, but that is my opinion as others will say the reverse. Being informed and the willingness to exercise your benefits always in a respectful and polite way does go a long way. On any given day grab a Tim's or in the US a Doncun Donut coffee at the airport and simply watch people and really observe their behaviors and many of life's questions will be answered. |
Sounds very typical. Except your flights were on time. Which is atypical.
Rouge is the devil. Sorry that was your first experience. A lot of people I know who jumped on the status match and had to fly AC once, have shared your opinion. |
Originally Posted by HerpaYvr
(Post 33765829)
Wow, I think there was just some bad luck. The one thing I have observed is that many so-called frequent flyers are not well informed of their benefits and how things are supposed to work. Like a lot of things in life, being informed is the number one strength that one can have. E50 & E75 can choose standard seats for free. Yesterday I booked for my wife under her account a flight to HNL and as an E50 I booked a standard fare and choose emergency seats for her. There is no priority security line for transborder out of YYZ, and if you are a family with small kids or seniors that hold up the entire line, you have priority. I was there on my LAX fight and they kept moving the slowest people, that always have water bottles etc that take what seems forever to unload and ask if they can take this or that, anyway, the priority is not there.
Covid for some reason has been an excellent excuse for incompetence, poor services, mistakes, delays etc . Things just take longer as there are many who are still afraid and or have anxiety issues to be near people. You cant sit side by side in an MLL for a bit, but it's Ok to sit side by side nine seats across on an aircraft for hours. As an Elite member, you should know what you are entitled to and know the rules and benefits. This site is a great educational tool as AC employees may not know certain things, but here there are a lot of season flyers who know more than employees. Flying today you need to be steadfast, informed, and willing to be brave enough, in a Canadian politeness attitude of course to question and in many cases educate or inform those who are in positions of authority. Just because one is in a uniform or position of authority does not make them superior or knowledgeable. I have always said just because you are educated does not mean you are smart! In Short, I have had excellent and poor service on AC and United.....I think Canadian carriers are better than US carriers, but that is my opinion as others will say the reverse. Being informed and the willingness to exercise your benefits always in a respectful and polite way does go a long way. On any given day grab a Tim's or in the US a Doncun Donut coffee at the airport and simply watch people and really observe their behaviors and many of life's questions will be answered. As for AC, I’ve done about 16-20 domestic segments since June with AC on mainline, Jazz, and Rouge and I have not seen anything better or worse than my recollections of flying US carriers in the pre pandemic days. Maybe I’m lucky. My TATL experience in paid J was not good, however. The crew were indifferent and seemed to think their role was to gather in the galley to have hours-long loud (like really loud) conversations and bugger the passengers who might like to sleep on their overnight flight. By contrast, we ended up booking WS on our second London trip this fall and the service levels in business are up there with the best—if not better—we’ve experienced (AC, LX, LH, SN) in the last 4-5 years. They really treat you like you are very special. AC could learn something from them in that regard. |
We flew DXB-YYZ yesterday on EK. Then AC YYZ-IAH. Customer service was a complete joke. We wanted to stand-by on an earlier flight. (no, cannot). We asked to upgrade using ecredits (no, cannot), wanted to change seats (no cannot).
It felt like the IRS. You are there to obey and comply with their rules and way of doing things. Customers are just in the way of their day. It was so bad that my young daughter named them Air Canannot. We did the status match to 75K but after this experience we are not going to buy the additional ticket to qualify for the status through 2022. It is just too painful. Speaking of painful. YYZ is just a mess. We arrived in T1 and could not go to any of the Priority Pass restaurants in T1 because it is in DOMESTIC. We could also not go to the Priority Pass restaurant in the international terminal because we were in TRANSBORDER. What kind of screwed up planning is THAT? We couldn't legally enter Canada and walk to the domestic side because we had tickets to IAH. While air travel sucks almost universally, especially with the useless testing requirements, it does suck even more in Canada. We will avoid AC and Canada when possible. ETA.. at the transborder check point (why is there even one when I came off a secure, international flight without access to my checked bags?) were 4 lanes. 3 were blocked off and the one was having IT issues so it took about 30-45 mins to process 20-30 passengers. And our AC flight to IAH was 30 mins late. According to friends in a travel group, I am lucky. Oh and of our two bags only one made it to IAH/SAT. The other one is still sitting in YYZ |
Excellent posts and observations here. All valid.
Also reminds me that I should post why I switched to flying in Y on AC for domestic (transcon) flights a month ago. :D Also, as others have noted, NEXUS and Priority lanes are not what they once were and I'll post elsewhere about a recent chat with a CATSA supervisor and a few AC concierges about that. |
Originally Posted by Deltahater
(Post 33765940)
Speaking of painful. YYZ is just a mess. We arrived in T1 and could not go to any of the Priority Pass restaurants in T1 because it is in DOMESTIC. We could also not go to the Priority Pass restaurant in the international terminal because we were in TRANSBORDER. What kind of screwed up planning is THAT?
|
Originally Posted by Deltahater
(Post 33765940)
We flew DXB-YYZ yesterday on EK. Then AC YYZ-IAH.
We arrived in T1 and could not go to any of the Priority Pass restaurants in T1 because it is in DOMESTIC. We could also not go to the Priority Pass restaurant in the international terminal because we were in TRANSBORDER. What kind of screwed up planning is that? |
Originally Posted by Deltahater
(Post 33765940)
We arrived in T1 and could not go to any of the Priority Pass restaurants in T1 because it is in DOMESTIC. We could also not go to the Priority Pass restaurant in the international terminal because we were in TRANSBORDER. What kind of screwed up planning is THAT?
|
Apart from the offtopic discussion about the setup of YYZ, who is to blame for it, etc - who hasnt felt like AC acts like "customers are just in the way of their day" - that point is very valid.
|
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:21 pm. |
This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.