Complex Multi-City Points Bookings, Stopovers & Adding Segments (Aeroplan 2.0)
Apr 12, 2022, 10:15 am
#721
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Toronto
Programs: Aero Plan, Marriott, Air Miles
Posts: 106
UPDATE: Finally i could able to get this one way having stop over coded as expected.
YYZ-CAI-DXB(STOP OVER)-BAH-SIN-HAN - 105K+5K for stop over.
The last leg from SIN-HAN in Y unfortunately though the duration is short but cannot use the lounge.
Wish i could have brought down under 11k miles which would have been coded 85k+5k from N.america to Pacific zone pricing.
now looking DXB-AMM-DXB, unfortunately aero plan redemption is going via BAH/MCT/CAI for 12.5k+$150 taxes one way..
that is 25k+$300, where as the cash fares are around $550..
For now i burned 12.5k+$150 DXB-BAH(7.5hrs layover)-AMM and thinking of using AVIOS to book Royal Jordin flight from AMM-DXB direct for 11k+$140 which is slightly cheaper than Aeroplan redemption.
PS: Now i have to change this ticket as BAHRAIN does not allow visa free to go outside and waste of time staying in the airport for such long layover.
any one can confirm
YYZ-CAI-DXB(STOP OVER)-BAH-SIN-HAN - 105K+5K for stop over.
The last leg from SIN-HAN in Y unfortunately though the duration is short but cannot use the lounge.
Wish i could have brought down under 11k miles which would have been coded 85k+5k from N.america to Pacific zone pricing.
now looking DXB-AMM-DXB, unfortunately aero plan redemption is going via BAH/MCT/CAI for 12.5k+$150 taxes one way..
that is 25k+$300, where as the cash fares are around $550..
For now i burned 12.5k+$150 DXB-BAH(7.5hrs layover)-AMM and thinking of using AVIOS to book Royal Jordin flight from AMM-DXB direct for 11k+$140 which is slightly cheaper than Aeroplan redemption.
PS: Now i have to change this ticket as BAHRAIN does not allow visa free to go outside and waste of time staying in the airport for such long layover.
any one can confirm
Apr 12, 2022, 10:58 am
#722
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: BOM-SIN-EWR
Programs: UA*G (1K again), Sixt Plat, *was*: SQ QPP01 & SK EBS/EBG, LH SEN, AA EXP, 9wPlat
Posts: 8,606
I'm a newbie with Aeroplan, but something was a bit off when I repriced an award where I had to change the stopover city from BER to WAW.
First I had a BOM-AUH-FRA-BER (stopover) BER-MUC-EWR for 120k points - all in business class.
Then I changed it to BOM-AUH-FRA-WAW (stopover) WAW-MUC-EWR - with only changing the FRA-BER to WAW and the BER-MUC to WAW-MUC - all other flights were unchanged, same dates - but now priced at 150k!
It's a bit weird, because I just flew an EWR-FRA (in LH F) FRA-MUC-DEL-BOM (in LH C and AI C) for only 110k.
I'm thinking of calling into Aeroplan again and asking another agent to check the miles required...or does it seem okay to you guys??
First I had a BOM-AUH-FRA-BER (stopover) BER-MUC-EWR for 120k points - all in business class.
Then I changed it to BOM-AUH-FRA-WAW (stopover) WAW-MUC-EWR - with only changing the FRA-BER to WAW and the BER-MUC to WAW-MUC - all other flights were unchanged, same dates - but now priced at 150k!
It's a bit weird, because I just flew an EWR-FRA (in LH F) FRA-MUC-DEL-BOM (in LH C and AI C) for only 110k.
I'm thinking of calling into Aeroplan again and asking another agent to check the miles required...or does it seem okay to you guys??
Apr 12, 2022, 11:08 am
#723
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: SFO
Programs: AC SE MM, BA Gold, SQ Silver, Bonvoy Tit LTG, Hyatt Glob, HH Diamond
Posts: 44,324
Do we need a new cowtool to give you the expected price of a specific itinerary? We can call it the local psychic.
I can't tell you what it should be from looking at it, but it should be trivial to calculate.
I can't tell you what it should be from looking at it, but it should be trivial to calculate.
Apr 12, 2022, 11:11 am
#724
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: BOM-SIN-EWR
Programs: UA*G (1K again), Sixt Plat, *was*: SQ QPP01 & SK EBS/EBG, LH SEN, AA EXP, 9wPlat
Posts: 8,606
If this was directed at me, all I can say was that the new pricing was the exact amount of the 2 one-ways, and no 5k stopover added...not sure what is correct or not, but I was assuming that redemptions from EWR-BOM and the reverse were fixed mileage amounts, but maybe I'm wrong??
Apr 12, 2022, 11:13 am
#725
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: SFO
Programs: AC SE MM, BA Gold, SQ Silver, Bonvoy Tit LTG, Hyatt Glob, HH Diamond
Posts: 44,324
If this was directed at me, all I can say was that the new pricing was the exact amount of the 2 one-ways, and no 5k stopover added...not sure what is correct or not, but I was assuming that redemptions from EWR-BOM and the reverse were fixed mileage amounts, but maybe I'm wrong??
Apr 12, 2022, 11:17 am
#726
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: BOM-SIN-EWR
Programs: UA*G (1K again), Sixt Plat, *was*: SQ QPP01 & SK EBS/EBG, LH SEN, AA EXP, 9wPlat
Posts: 8,606
Okay, then Aeroplan is also just like United now - with variable award amounts?
Apr 12, 2022, 11:19 am
#727
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: SFO
Programs: AC SE MM, BA Gold, SQ Silver, Bonvoy Tit LTG, Hyatt Glob, HH Diamond
Posts: 44,324
If you're flying AC, the link in my signature is a pretty good guess of what it will cost. If there's no AC on it, we can easily determine what it should cost.
Apr 12, 2022, 11:21 am
#728
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: BOM-SIN-EWR
Programs: UA*G (1K again), Sixt Plat, *was*: SQ QPP01 & SK EBS/EBG, LH SEN, AA EXP, 9wPlat
Posts: 8,606
Apr 12, 2022, 11:21 am
#729
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Toronto, ON
Programs: AC 75K
Posts: 6,361
Apr 12, 2022, 11:21 am
#730
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: BOM-SIN-EWR
Programs: UA*G (1K again), Sixt Plat, *was*: SQ QPP01 & SK EBS/EBG, LH SEN, AA EXP, 9wPlat
Posts: 8,606
Apr 12, 2022, 6:00 pm
#731
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 324
I'm a newbie with Aeroplan, but something was a bit off when I repriced an award where I had to change the stopover city from BER to WAW.
First I had a BOM-AUH-FRA-BER (stopover) BER-MUC-EWR for 120k points - all in business class.
Then I changed it to BOM-AUH-FRA-WAW (stopover) WAW-MUC-EWR - with only changing the FRA-BER to WAW and the BER-MUC to WAW-MUC - all other flights were unchanged, same dates - but now priced at 150k!
It's a bit weird, because I just flew an EWR-FRA (in LH F) FRA-MUC-DEL-BOM (in LH C and AI C) for only 110k.
I'm thinking of calling into Aeroplan again and asking another agent to check the miles required...or does it seem okay to you guys??
First I had a BOM-AUH-FRA-BER (stopover) BER-MUC-EWR for 120k points - all in business class.
Then I changed it to BOM-AUH-FRA-WAW (stopover) WAW-MUC-EWR - with only changing the FRA-BER to WAW and the BER-MUC to WAW-MUC - all other flights were unchanged, same dates - but now priced at 150k!
It's a bit weird, because I just flew an EWR-FRA (in LH F) FRA-MUC-DEL-BOM (in LH C and AI C) for only 110k.
I'm thinking of calling into Aeroplan again and asking another agent to check the miles required...or does it seem okay to you guys??
direction of travel, backtracking via the same connecting airport, city or country
is not permitted."
Last edited by zam; Apr 12, 2022 at 7:04 pm
Apr 14, 2022, 1:41 pm
#732
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 137
I have 2 questions/observations related to my recent booking experience that I'd like to get more into on if anyone can enlighten.
The booking experience: I was searching cow's engine (thanks cow!) for trips to SIN and one popped up YVR-AKL-SIN on AC-SQ J at almost 1/3 the points as the YVR-AKL flight by itself, so jumped on it and make the booking online. Called in to extend the 16 hour layover into a stopover and was told by agent "that's not what a stopover is", "you can't do that", etc.. As I know better, I argued with her for a while until she begrudgingly decided to actually price it out and sure enough, I got my 4 day stopover for 10,000 pts (5k per person).
Q. 1. The price of the YVR-AKL-SIN flight was 109,000 in J, which is close to the partner rate of 105,000 for that distance band, but way less than the 278,000 points the exact same YVR-AKL segment was being priced at on its own. I'm curious as to why this happened. The AKL-SIN segment was about 43% of the total distance. I've noticed that the higher percentage of a trip on partner metal tends to increase the weight placed on pricing at the partner level, but adding just 4,000 points when 57% of the trip is on AC metal seems strange. I would love to know more precisely how the algorithm works so this strategy can be exploited. Is there a magic percentage of partner metal that alters the rate so dramatically? As all AP flights can be one-way bookings, the opportunity for skip-lagging is something that could be utilized in addition to building some interesting RTW trips on the cheap.
Q. 2. What the hell is going on with AP agents not understanding what a stopover is? It's been 1.5 years on the new program so the learning curve should be well behind them. In this case, I wasn't trying to add a segment, I was literally adding a stopover into an already booked one way itinerary. The agent kept referring to the 2nd segment as my "return flight". Seriously, ...? Is there a way to provide feedback to AC loyalty management so they understand what's happening?
The booking experience: I was searching cow's engine (thanks cow!) for trips to SIN and one popped up YVR-AKL-SIN on AC-SQ J at almost 1/3 the points as the YVR-AKL flight by itself, so jumped on it and make the booking online. Called in to extend the 16 hour layover into a stopover and was told by agent "that's not what a stopover is", "you can't do that", etc.. As I know better, I argued with her for a while until she begrudgingly decided to actually price it out and sure enough, I got my 4 day stopover for 10,000 pts (5k per person).
Q. 1. The price of the YVR-AKL-SIN flight was 109,000 in J, which is close to the partner rate of 105,000 for that distance band, but way less than the 278,000 points the exact same YVR-AKL segment was being priced at on its own. I'm curious as to why this happened. The AKL-SIN segment was about 43% of the total distance. I've noticed that the higher percentage of a trip on partner metal tends to increase the weight placed on pricing at the partner level, but adding just 4,000 points when 57% of the trip is on AC metal seems strange. I would love to know more precisely how the algorithm works so this strategy can be exploited. Is there a magic percentage of partner metal that alters the rate so dramatically? As all AP flights can be one-way bookings, the opportunity for skip-lagging is something that could be utilized in addition to building some interesting RTW trips on the cheap.
Q. 2. What the hell is going on with AP agents not understanding what a stopover is? It's been 1.5 years on the new program so the learning curve should be well behind them. In this case, I wasn't trying to add a segment, I was literally adding a stopover into an already booked one way itinerary. The agent kept referring to the 2nd segment as my "return flight". Seriously, ...? Is there a way to provide feedback to AC loyalty management so they understand what's happening?
Last edited by gospelle; Apr 14, 2022 at 1:43 pm Reason: clarification
Apr 14, 2022, 3:54 pm
#733
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Canada
Programs: UA*1K MM
Posts: 23,301
Q. 2. What the hell is going on with AP agents not understanding what a stopover is? It's been 1.5 years on the new program so the learning curve should be well behind them. In this case, I wasn't trying to add a segment, I was literally adding a stopover into an already booked one way itinerary. The agent kept referring to the 2nd segment as my "return flight". Seriously, ...? Is there a way to provide feedback to AC loyalty management so they understand what's happening?
a) There are so few of those bookings and/or high turnover - there is no benefit to spending resources to train phone agents on this.
b) This is done on purpose, since these are the highest value redemptions - so its beneficial to AC to make it as difficult as possible.
There was a promise of a functioning online booking engine "in a few months" in 2020, but it never happened, and probably never will.
Apr 14, 2022, 4:00 pm
#734
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 324
I have 2 questions/observations related to my recent booking experience that I'd like to get more into on if anyone can enlighten.
The booking experience: I was searching cow's engine (thanks cow!) for trips to SIN and one popped up YVR-AKL-SIN on AC-SQ J at almost 1/3 the points as the YVR-AKL flight by itself, so jumped on it and make the booking online. Called in to extend the 16 hour layover into a stopover and was told by agent "that's not what a stopover is", "you can't do that", etc.. As I know better, I argued with her for a while until she begrudgingly decided to actually price it out and sure enough, I got my 4 day stopover for 10,000 pts (5k per person).
Q. 1. The price of the YVR-AKL-SIN flight was 109,000 in J, which is close to the partner rate of 105,000 for that distance band, but way less than the 278,000 points the exact same YVR-AKL segment was being priced at on its own. I'm curious as to why this happened. The AKL-SIN segment was about 43% of the total distance. I've noticed that the higher percentage of a trip on partner metal tends to increase the weight placed on pricing at the partner level, but adding just 4,000 points when 57% of the trip is on AC metal seems strange. I would love to know more precisely how the algorithm works so this strategy can be exploited. Is there a magic percentage of partner metal that alters the rate so dramatically? As all AP flights can be one-way bookings, the opportunity for skip-lagging is something that could be utilized in addition to building some interesting RTW trips on the cheap.
Q. 2. What the hell is going on with AP agents not understanding what a stopover is? It's been 1.5 years on the new program so the learning curve should be well behind them. In this case, I wasn't trying to add a segment, I was literally adding a stopover into an already booked one way itinerary. The agent kept referring to the 2nd segment as my "return flight". Seriously, ...? Is there a way to provide feedback to AC loyalty management so they understand what's happening?
The booking experience: I was searching cow's engine (thanks cow!) for trips to SIN and one popped up YVR-AKL-SIN on AC-SQ J at almost 1/3 the points as the YVR-AKL flight by itself, so jumped on it and make the booking online. Called in to extend the 16 hour layover into a stopover and was told by agent "that's not what a stopover is", "you can't do that", etc.. As I know better, I argued with her for a while until she begrudgingly decided to actually price it out and sure enough, I got my 4 day stopover for 10,000 pts (5k per person).
Q. 1. The price of the YVR-AKL-SIN flight was 109,000 in J, which is close to the partner rate of 105,000 for that distance band, but way less than the 278,000 points the exact same YVR-AKL segment was being priced at on its own. I'm curious as to why this happened. The AKL-SIN segment was about 43% of the total distance. I've noticed that the higher percentage of a trip on partner metal tends to increase the weight placed on pricing at the partner level, but adding just 4,000 points when 57% of the trip is on AC metal seems strange. I would love to know more precisely how the algorithm works so this strategy can be exploited. Is there a magic percentage of partner metal that alters the rate so dramatically? As all AP flights can be one-way bookings, the opportunity for skip-lagging is something that could be utilized in addition to building some interesting RTW trips on the cheap.
Q. 2. What the hell is going on with AP agents not understanding what a stopover is? It's been 1.5 years on the new program so the learning curve should be well behind them. In this case, I wasn't trying to add a segment, I was literally adding a stopover into an already booked one way itinerary. The agent kept referring to the 2nd segment as my "return flight". Seriously, ...? Is there a way to provide feedback to AC loyalty management so they understand what's happening?
Apr 14, 2022, 4:20 pm
#735
Join Date: Jan 2022
Posts: 74
Hi all, have been unable to get an aeroplan agent on the line to book yet. I would like to confirm if this routing is indeed valid: BKK-LHR-MCT-AUH-GVA-JFK
MCT-AUH and GVA-JFK in J, rest in F. This seems to follow the 6(?) segment rule, and total distance < 2x BKK-JFK. Any other rule I should be vary of? Thanks!
MCT-AUH and GVA-JFK in J, rest in F. This seems to follow the 6(?) segment rule, and total distance < 2x BKK-JFK. Any other rule I should be vary of? Thanks!