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Air Canada eUpgrade program (October 2020 onwards) [read wiki BEFORE asking question]

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Old Jul 13, 2021, 7:50 pm
FlyerTalk Forums Expert How-Tos and Guides
Last edit by: Adam Smith

Note: This is a long wiki, with nearly 50 Q&As. If you only see 3 or 4 questions, then find and click on the "Show more" link which can be found at the very end of the last text you see in this wiki window


Table of Contents (note the links below only work on desktop if you have expanded the wiki as described above)


Basics Back to top

Q: What is an eUpgrade?
A: eUpgrades (sometimes referred to as “eUps”) are a benefit of elite status with AC that allow elites to upgrade to a higher cabin (business class / Signature class, a.k.a. “J”, or premium economy, a.k.a. “PY” or “PE”).

Q: Are eUps automatic, like on Delta/AA/United?
A: No, you have to request one online or with a phone agent. You have to have sufficient eUpgrade credits (which, like the concept of eUpgrades, are often referred to as "eUps"), with an expiry date at least equal to the date of your flight, to make the request. If you don’t request an eUp, AC has no problem letting you sit in your original cabin, even if it means letting seats in J/PY go out empty.

Q: How many eUpgrade credits do I need for my flight?
A: Here's the official eUp chart (last updated by AC in October 2020; current as of at least December 2023)

Q: How are the number of required eUpgrade credits calculated for multi-segment itineraries? Is it by adding the cost of upgrading each segment individually, or for the end-to-end journey?
A: As long as your travel is continuous (without a >24hr stopover), then the number of eUpgrade credits required is for the end-to-end journey. Example, if you are travelling from YVR-YYZ-FRA, then the cost of upgrading both segments will be the same as though you had just a single segment from YVR-FRA. In some cases this may mean that a shorter segment is "free" (has no marginal cost). Note that you must clear each segment individually.

If you request an eUpgrade for AAA-BBB-CCC, but only the BBB-CCC segment clears, you will be charged eUp credits applicable only to the upgraded leg.

Q: I’m booked in economy on an aircraft with both PY and J cabins. Can I request an upgrade to both?
A:
No. You can request PY only, or you can request J and be listed for both J and PY.

Q: Can I confirm an upgrade to PY, then request an upgrade to J?
A:
Nope. Once you confirm a PY upgrade, that’s it.

Q: If I don’t clear my upgrade to J, can I still get upgraded to PY?
A:
Yes, if your upgrade doesn’t clear until the gate, you will be on the list for both J and PY, including the seats newly-vacated by people booked in PY who cleared their eUp to J at the gate.

Q: Are eUps guaranteed once they're confirmed?
A:
Not quite. For example, you won't get bumped out of an eUp just because somebody with higher status requested one after yours was confirmed. However, in very rare circumstances, for example if your plane gets swapped for one with a smaller (or no) business cabin, you might lose your eUp. See this thread for details. Further note that Air Canada generally takes the approach that a downgrade-from-eUp for operational reasons (equipment change, broken seat, etc) shall not receive any meaningful compensation, since you flew in the cabin you paid for.




Timing & Availability Back to top

Q: When can I request an eUpgrade?
A: You can request an upgrade as soon as you book the flight, with the exception of the travel companion benefit (person on same flight but not on same PNR; see below for details). Travel companion eUpgrade requests need to be made by airport staff after the flight opens for check-in.

Q: When can I confirm (or "clear") my eUpgrade?
A: You have to be within the "clearance window" that applies to your status and fare type. The windows are detailed in the AC eUp requirements document.

Q: Can you be more specific?
A:
All upgrades that clear in advance of the gate are subject to upgrade space being available. In addition:
  • for flexible fares (Latitude and Premium Economy Flexible): If upgrade space is available (more on that below) you can confirm an eUpgrade immediately after booking, even months in advance.
  • for non-flexible fares (Standard, Flex, Comfort, Premium Economy Lowest): You have to be within the clearance window in the document linked above, which ranges from 3-14 days, depending on fare brand, route, and status.
Exception: if you have no status, you can only clear an upgrade on a Latitude or Premium Economy Flexible fare 7 days in advance (non-flexible fares cannot be upgraded).

Q: What does "upgrade space" mean?
A:
Upgrade space (also known as R space - see below) refers to the number of seats that Air Canada are prepared to let people upgrade in to, in advance. This is not the same as the number of business seats that are available for sale. If Air Canada think that they will be able to sell all of the business seats on a plane (by the time of the flight) then they might not make any upgrade space available for that flight, even a full year in advance.

Q: I see a lot of people talking about "R space" or "R0", what does that mean?
A:
In short, R is the fare bucket Air Canada uses to make eUpgrade space available. If R is greater than zero, there are eUp spaces still available. If R = 0, then anyone who's requested an eUp will be waitlisted.

Q: What if I only want to upgrade to Premium Economy?
A:
Replace "R" with "N".

Q: The AC website tells me whether my upgrade request will be confirmed or waitlisted. Is it reliable?
A:
No. The website may tell you you’ll be waitlisted, when in fact your upgrade will be confirmed right away. Or it may say there’s space available even though you’ll be waitlisted. This is true of both the upgrade availability displayed during the booking flow as well as the eUpgrade website. The only exception being that if you’re outside your clearance window, the website should pretty reliably tell you that you’ll be waitlisted.

If the website tells you you’ll be upgraded, then waitlists you, you may be able to phone in to have the eUpgrade cleared, or not. If there’s R space, it’s likely they will be able to clear the upgrade.

Q: I’m waitlisted on a flight that’s R0. Will AC release more R space before the flight? Do I have to wait until the flight to find out whether I’m upgraded?
A:
AC might release more R space tomorrow (or clear your upgrade without creating any R space). Or they might never clear any more upgrades on that flight. If you’re still waitlisted, your upgrade may clear at the gate.

Q: What does “at the gate” mean?
A:
The upgrade list is typically processed 5 minutes after check-in for the flight closes. Check-in generally closes 45 minutes before domestic flights and 1 hour before international flights, meaning the upgrade list gets run at T-40 or T-55, as applicable (although occasionally it will be delayed). Even if your upgrade doesn’t clear at that point, it’s theoretically possible to still be upgraded if someone else in the cabin doesn’t show up.

Q: Is there a way to check my position on the upgrade list? To ensure I am on the list?
A: The mobile app will have a "Standby and Upgrade" list available at T-24 hours on the Flight Status page. Note that the order of the list may not be the order in which they process eUpgrades and only people checked in will show on the list. If you are upgraded you will receive a check mark beside your name?

Q: I boarded the plane but am still hoping for an upgrade; however, my name is no longer on the list? Does that mean I won't get upgraded?
A: Once you are marked as boarded in the system your name will no longer appear on the mobile app. There is much debate on what policy is once boarded; however, many feel "You Board, You Lose" and once boarded you are not likely to be upgraded using eUpgrades as the gate agents must process that transaction manually.

Q: So is there a chance that my upgrade might clear after I have boarded?
A: Probably not. Although this has happened on occasion, it's not a normal or automated or routine occurrence. Generally speaking, once you have boarded your name is removed from the upgrade list and you'll be sitting in the seat you boarded for. See this thread for details.

Q: How can I find the R space for my flight?
A:
Using a paid service like ExpertFlyer. If you ask nicely and don't overdo it, many FTers with EF accounts will help you in the Official Fare Bucket Check Request Thread.

Q: So, WHEN should I check for R space for my flight?
A:
This depends on your status and what kind of fare you have, so please read and keep in mind the confirmation windows mentioned above.
  • If you have (or are about to purchase) a flexible fare (Latitude and Premium Economy Flexible), then by all means check now since your upgrade could also clear immediately. If your plans are flexible, this can be a useful strategy to help find specific flights that could clear immediately well before the ‘normal’ confirmation windows.
  • If you don’t have one of the flexible fares mentioned, R space viewed on something like ExpertFlyer is only useful when you get close to your confirmation window. Checking before that is probably a waste of time.

Q: I heard a rumour that paid Latitude fares can eUp even when R=0. Is this true?
A:
Sometimes; it's complicated. Senior execs at Aeroplan have said that “in some cases” a Latitude or PE Flex cash fare (including Flight Pass Latitude Bookings) might clear an eUp even when R=0, but they've also been very clear that they will not be releasing the exact method by which this is determined, and that the same thing is less-often true for award Latitude / PE Flex. In other words, it may happen but don't assume it, and there are lots of times when it simply never happens.

Q: My flight shows R=1 (or more), and I'm within my window, but my upgrade has not cleared.
Answer depends on how close you are to the flight.
  • Within 36 hours of departure Your upgrade can't clear until the gate.
  • More than 36 hours from departure: Cancelling the request and then requesting again may solve it. Or you may be able to solve it by phoning in. Or you may not, because it's AC.

Q: I have a pending upgrade and I am looking at the mobile app - who are all those other people listed?
A:
The list shows everyone who wants to sit in a cabin that they're not currently confirmed in. If you see a name listed for both PY and J, they're trying to upgrade from Y; names listed only for J are trying to upgrade from PY.

Q: What are my chances of clearing an eUp for [FLIGHT] on [DATE] if I have [STATUS]?
A:
All we can do is make an educated guess. Lots of business travel gets booked last minute, or pilots need to reposition, or any of a dozen other things that might turn J9 in to J0 just before departure.

Q: But the seat map shows [x] seats occupied. Surely that means my odds are [good][bad]?
A: STOP LOOKING AT THE SEAT MAP. STOP LOOKING AT THE SEAT MAP. STOP LOOKING AT THE SEAT MAP.

Seriously, stop looking at the seat map. The seat map is not an accurate guide to the number of seats available in the cabin. Many people do not select their seats when booking, which can mean more seats have been sold than show as occupied on the seat map. On the other hand, due to IT glitches, seats are sometimes shown as blocked when there are waitlisted eUps or staff members on passes (see this thread for details). So the seat map may show more seats available than there truly are, or fewer. Or it may be correct. There’s no way to know for sure.

So stop looking at the seat map.

Q: I see people talking about "Aerolotto", what is that? Can I bet eUps?
A:
Aerolotto is a slang term for waiting at the gate to see if your eUp clears, or you're stuck in the original seat you paid for.

Q: I want to upgrade my flight on date X, but all my eUps expire on date Y, where Y < X. Can I upgrade?
A: NO. To eUp any flight, at any time, you need to have credits that are still valid on the date of the flight.



Earning and Validity Back to top

Q: How long are eUpgrades good for? When do they expire?
A: It depends on when the eUpgrade is deposited in your account.
  • eUpgrade earned January 1st - June 30th: Valid until January 15th of next calendar year
  • eUpgrade earned July 1st - December 31st: Valid until January 15th two calendar years later

Q: When do I need to use them by?
A: An eUpgrade needs to be used for a flight departing prior to 23:59 local time (where your flight departs) on the day your eUpgrade expires.

Q: Can I delay picking my benefits package until after July 1st to have eUpgrades have the later expiry year?
A: Yes. Picking your benefit after July 1st will have your eUpgrades deposited with an expiry year two years after the deposit date.

Q: I have an Amex Reserve / VISA VIP card that offers eUpgrade rollover. When I try to apply eUpgrades to a flight next year, it doesn't work. Why?
A: The eUpgrade rollover feature does not extend the expiry date of your eUpgrades. Those eUpgrades will expire, and you'll be issued new eUpgrades with a new expiry date. The T&C of these programs state that the rollover eUpgrades will be deposited by March 30, but it in 2022 and 2023 they were deposited before the end of January. Because of this quirk, it is not possible to use eUpgrades that would be rolled over. This thread on Aeroplan rollover benefits has more detailed information.

Q: Can I buy eUpgrades?
A: No. Generally you can only earn eUpgrades through a benefit package or SQM thresholds.



Upgrading Multiple Passengers Back to top

Q: I want to use my eUp credits to upgrade somebody else. Is this possible?
Are they on the same booking (“PNR”) as you?
  • Yes: You can upgrade a maximum of three passengers on a booking. If the booking has more than three passengers, you can't request an upgrade for any of them, before the day of travel. You can split the booking so that it has at most three passengers, then upgrade it, although splitting bookings can come with other, negative consequences.
  • No, but they’re on the same flight: You can request the upgrade at the airport on the day of travel; AC refers to this as upgrading a "travel companion".
  • No, and they’re not on the same flight: No, unless you’re Super Elite. If you’re Super Elite, you can designate a nominee, and you can upgrade this person on any flight they’re on. Your nominee selection stays in effect until January 17th of each year, and you only get one per status year. You cannot upgrade anyone else on your nominee's PNR.

Q: I'm trying to upgrade a travel companion on my flight, but the agent has no idea how. What do I do?
A: Tell the agent to go to the "customer" tab, select "upgrade", then select "use other FQTV".

Q: What's the maximum number of people I can upgrade on a flight
Are you Super Elite?
  • No: 5 (yourself + two people on the same PNR + two travel companions)
  • Yes: 6 (yourself + two people on the same PNR + two travel companions + nominee)

Q: I am SE and want to upgrade my nominee but they are on a PNR with multiple people and the system won't let me? Why not? What now?
A:
You can't have multiple people on the same PNR living in different cabins so the eUpgrade system will not allow you to request the eUpgrade. You may need to call in to AC (or Aeroplan if it is a flight reward) and ask them to split the PNR so that the person you want to upgrade is on their own PNR, at which point your eUpgrade should be fine. This shouldn't impact the ticket or incur a fee. But once you split the PNR you cannot join it back.

Q: I am SE and want to upgrade my nominee and their companion traveling on the same PNR. Is this possible?
A:
No.

Q: Can I upgrade my nominee on a flight that departs after January 17th?
A:
Yes, you should be able to upgrade them on any flight, regardless of departure date (subject to having eUps with sufficient validity).



Payments and Refunds Back to top

Q: If I don't get upgraded, or my flight gets cancelled, do I get the eUps back?
A:
Yes, eUps get refunded if your upgrade doesn't clear or your flight is cancelled (whether AC cancels it or you do). This should happen automatically shortly after the flight in most cases. If your eUps don't get returned to your account, fill out the form on this page.

Q: The eUpgrade I want to use has an additional cost. When will I be charged?
A:
eUpgrade add-ons are charged to your credit card when the eUpgrade is cleared, although AC may place a hold on the card before that.

Q: I'm a Super Elite and I'm still being charged for add-ons. Why?
A:
Super Elites are only exempt from eUpgrade add-on charges on international business-class flights (except for Standard tickets.)

Q: Will I be refunded my add-on payment if I cancel a booking that successfully cleared an eUpgrade?
A: There are no refunds on add-on payments.

Q: I paid extra for a Preferred Seat in Economy, does that fee get refunded if my upgrade request is successful?
A: There is no refund on preferred seats if you are upgraded.

Q: Do I earn Status Qualifying Dollars (SQD) for any eUpgrade add-on fees?
A: Yes, eUpgrade add-on fees paid where applicable earn SQD. This applies to fares paid in cash and with Aeroplan points. The SQD from the add-on will post as a separate transaction and may not post at the same time as the SQM/SQS/SQD from the flight itself.

Q: Who earns the SQD? If I upgraded someone using my eUps, do I get it?
A: SQD is earned by the passenger who was eUpgraded – who paid for the eUps or for the add-on doesn’t matter.



Priority for eUps Back to top

Q: What is the priority for eUpgrades?
A:
Upgrade priority at the gate:
  1. Cabin: If you're in PY, you're ahead of everyone in Y
    • Note: for upgrades to PY only, the requested cabin also appears to matter - AC appears to process anyone who requested, and didn't receive, an eUp to J, before those who requested an upgrade to PY (i.e. a 25K on a Flex fare who requested, but failed to clear, an upgrade to J would get a PY upgrade before an SEMM on a Latitude fares who only requested an eUp to PY). Note that this has not yet been extensively tested by FTers and is based on order on the publicly available upgrade list
  2. Status: There are several sub-priorities within status, listed in order of importance:
    1. Elite status; VIP > SE > 75K > 50K > 35K > 25K
    2. MM status; 2MM+ (no distinction between 2MM, 3MM, etc) outranks MMs, who outrank those with MM status
    3. Do you have a Premium credit card (TD/CIBC VIP or Amex Reserve) or not? (Other cards convey no eUp priority benefit)
    • To illustrate: any VIP > SE 2MM+ with credit card > SE 2MM+ > SE MM with credit card > SE MM > SE with credit card > SE > any 75K
    • If two passengers are on the PNR, the priority might be based on the highest status, regardless of who requested the upgrade, per this post
  3. "Fare": Brand comes first (PF > PL; LT > CO > FL > ST), so a low Comfort fare is higher priority than Flex M. Within a brand, fare class matters. If you bought your ticket through another airline, and you don't have a brand, they infer a brand based on the fare class.
    Fare class hierarchy:
    • PY fares: O > E > A > N
    • Y fares: Y > B > M > U > H > Q > V > W > S > T > L > K > G
  4. Check-in time: As indicated by your sequence number

Upgrade priority prior to the gate is similar, with possible exceptions for full-fare (Latitude / Premium Economy Flexible) bookings. In the old system, a 25K on a Latitude fare would be ahead of a SE on a Premium Economy Lowest fare prior to the gate. Time of upgrade request replaces check-in time.

Q: How can I tell where I rank for an upgrade?
A:
After check-in opens, the AC app has an upgrade list where you can see the people on the waitlist for J and PY. Note that the list is not only for eUps, but also includes customers on standby and some employees travelling on passes, and possibly others.

Q: How do those other things rank relative to eUpgrades?
A:
Staff on pass travel generally rank below eUps, while others may effectively rank ahead of or behind eUps.

Q: Is the app always correct?
A:
Unfortunately not. Sometimes the order is wrong, and sometimes people are missing from the list entirely even though they’re actually on the waitlist for an upgrade (and we have numerous reports of eUps clearing even when people weren’t showing on the public list)



eUpgrades & Partner Airlines Back to top

Q: Can I use eUps if I credit my mileage on an Air Canada flight to another airline?
A:
Yes. To request an eUpgrade, your Aeroplan number has to be on the file. Crediting to another FFP requires changing your Aeroplan number after check-in.

Q: Can I use eUps on partner operated flights (such as United, Lufthansa, etc)?
A:
No, you can only use eUps on flights operated by aircraft with "Air Canada" written on the outside.

Q: Can I use eUps on an Air Canada operated flight that was booked through a partner?
Answer depends on what type of booking you have made.
  • Cash tickets (i.e. not points): Yes, but with some complexity as to when and how you can request the upgrade.
    Is your AC flight a codeshare (a flight marketed by the other airline but operated by AC, e.g. marketed as UA5678, operated by AC as AC1234)?
    • No: you should be able to request it as usual via the eUp site
    • Yes: you can eUpgrade that -- but not before the day of the flight. You may only request an upgrade with an Air Canada agent at the airport, or at the departure gate on your day of travel.
  • Points tickets (United MileagePlus, Avianca Lifemiles, etc): No. These tickets cannot be upgraded.



Other Types of Upgrade Back to top

This wiki/thread only covers questions related to upgrading a ticket using Air Canada's eUpgrade currency. Please check out other threads to post questions or find out about other ways to upgrade:
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Air Canada eUpgrade program (October 2020 onwards) [read wiki BEFORE asking question]

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Old Sep 28, 2022, 7:29 pm
  #3001  
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: YYC
Programs: AC SE
Posts: 2,341
Originally Posted by canadiancow
The answer is no.
Originally Posted by Adam Smith
Now this exact scenario is covered in the wiki
Thanks for confirming and updating the wiki for that scenario. And for the record, I did read both the wiki and the eupgrade terms beforehand.
gcashin is offline  
Old Sep 29, 2022, 8:05 am
  #3002  
 
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Manitoba
Programs: Aeroplan 25K
Posts: 109
Originally Posted by canadiancow
The flight is in December. I have hundreds of credits. I was SE. I am SE. I will still be SE.

I called in, and the agent ran into a similar issue... or so she thought. It did actually go through when she made the request.
Every booking I try to upgrade suddenly does this.
jmt18325 is offline  
Old Sep 29, 2022, 8:41 pm
  #3003  
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: NYC
Posts: 264
I’m 25k. First time trying e upgrade for a cross continent flight during late Dec. I put in a request for my regular economy (q) flight over one month ago for said flight.

Today I got an email that the flight got cancelled, but it was actually rescheduled to take off 30m early. I didn’t have time to address it, then a few hours later i received an email that my flight was auto rescheduled, I accepted the changes.

Then it seems like my upgrade went through during the shuffle of rescheduling everyone, even though my lowly status and fare class isn’t supposed to clear the upgrade this early. Not sure how this happened, but I’ll take it.
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aimango is offline  
Old Sep 29, 2022, 8:47 pm
  #3004  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,607
I don't know if anyone with any access to actually answer or influence this but I have one real complaint about the eupgrade chart. How does it make any sense that PY->J upgrades cost the same as Latitude or even Comfort fares?! You've paid just as much as Latitude or more, you're costing the airline less and getting less of an improved service, and then if you want to eupgrade you end up paying a copay too as if you had booked a cheaper fare.

My previous experience was on BA where you can only upgrade the most expensive Y fares to PY and *any* PY fare to J (for fewer points than a Y->J upgrade would be where they exist). I'm sure the general philosophy was to encourage people to get their employer to pay extra for a flexible Y or PY fare where they can't approve business and then spend their points to upgrade. And indeed I find myself in that situation again where PY would be allowed but AC gives me absolutely no incentive to get my employer to pay for PY since it'll just cost employer more, cost me more eupgrade credits. *and* then they'll look for me to spend cash too in addition to the wasted PY fare spend. I'm better off paying a lower economy comfort fare. I don't get it.

It really seems they're charging top dollar for PY then treating PY passengers as if they've bought an economy ticket. If I drew up the chart both PY fares would cost significantly fewer eupgrade credits than Y and have no copay. Then set the price of PY based on what people are willing to pay. That would actually make the eupgrade program work for them.

I get the impression they look at eupgrades as a cost and don't have any way to estimate how much extra income they drive for people buying higher fares.
zkzkz is offline  
Old Sep 29, 2022, 11:14 pm
  #3005  
Moderator, Air Canada; FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: YYC
Programs: AC SE MM, FB Plat, WS Plat, BA Silver, DL GM, Marriott Plat, Hilton Gold, Accor Silver
Posts: 16,743
Originally Posted by aimango
Not sure how this happened, but I’ll take it.



Originally Posted by zkzkz
I don't know if anyone with any access to actually answer or influence this but I have one real complaint about the eupgrade chart. How does it make any sense that PY->J upgrades cost the same as Latitude or even Comfort fares?! You've paid just as much as Latitude or more, you're costing the airline less and getting less of an improved service, and then if you want to eupgrade you end up paying a copay too as if you had booked a cheaper fare.
Your premise is flawed. Latitude fares often cost far more than PY Lowest fares. I've definitely seen plenty of Comfort fares higher than PY Lowest as well.

There is already a strong correlation between what you pay for an eUp (credits/co-pay) and what you paid for your fare. The eUp chart is already set up to attempt to take in to account what customers have paid for their tickets by setting requirements based on both brand and fare class. So an upgrade from Flex K or Comfort G costs a lot more than from Flex/Comfort M.

You seem to think that buying a seat in the PY cabin somehow makes you more valuable than someone who bought a seat in the Y cabin, but if you paid $1100 for PY A, why are you more valuable than someone who paid $1300 for Comfort M?

There are quirks in AC's pricing where the relationship might break down somewhat (thinking primarily of the cheap ex-Europe Latitude fares here), but in general, AC's goal is clearly to make it cheaper for people to upgrade if they've bought more expensive fares.

I get the impression they look at eupgrades as a cost and don't have any way to estimate how much extra income they drive for people buying higher fares.


I disagree entirely. I think they understand very well how much extra money people spend on buying higher Y fares to improve their J upgrade chances, and that's why the eUp chart is the way it is.
Adam Smith is offline  
Old Sep 29, 2022, 11:55 pm
  #3006  
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Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Between AUS, EWR, and YTO In a little twisty maze of airline seats, all alike.. but I wanna go home with the armadillo
Programs: CO, NW, & UA forum moderator emeritus
Posts: 35,385
I tried to nominate my wife so she could use my stash of eUpgrades. I keep seeing strange errors like this:




Has anyne else seen this? I guess I need to call in...
Xyzzy is offline  
Old Sep 30, 2022, 5:16 am
  #3007  
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Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 166
Originally Posted by Adam Smith
I disagree entirely. I think they understand very well how much extra money people spend on buying higher Y fares to improve their J upgrade chances, and that's why the eUp chart is the way it is.
And screw you up whenever they feel like it.

A while ago I purchased a latitude fare to have my eup confirmed immediately, but was downgraded to PY at the gate due to “broken seats”.
Was merely offer $300 voucher as a “good gesture”, no refund of fare difference whatsoever (latitude was $2200 and comfort was ~$900). Heck they even charged me eup credits for J and wouldn’t return the difference, quoting “upgrade was still provided so no refund in credits”. It was only 1 credit for O v.s. 2 credits for J, so didn’t bother arguing on this point.
sha8192 is offline  
Old Sep 30, 2022, 7:41 am
  #3008  
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: YOW
Programs: AC SE, FOTSG Platinum
Posts: 5,725
Originally Posted by sha8192
And screw you up whenever they feel like it.

A while ago I purchased a latitude fare to have my eup confirmed immediately, but was downgraded to PY at the gate due to “broken seats”.
Was merely offer $300 voucher as a “good gesture”, no refund of fare difference whatsoever (latitude was $2200 and comfort was ~$900). Heck they even charged me eup credits for J and wouldn’t return the difference, quoting “upgrade was still provided so no refund in credits”. It was only 1 credit for O v.s. 2 credits for J, so didn’t bother arguing on this point.
Why in the world would you be entitled to a fare refund?

You paid for a fully-refundable fare, and you got it; if you'd decided to cancel your trip just before departure you'd have received a full refund. Latitude is an Economy fare, not a wink-wink-nudge-nudge shortcut to guaranteed Business Class.

If you wanted that eUp credit back, and chose to pursue it, I'd bet in your favour on receiving THAT refund.
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YOWgary is offline  
Old Sep 30, 2022, 8:40 am
  #3009  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: YYZ/LHR/SFO/SIN
Programs: AC SE100K
Posts: 282
Originally Posted by Xyzzy
I tried to nominate my wife so she could use my stash of eUpgrades. I keep seeing strange errors like this:
Has anyne else seen this? I guess I need to call in...
I've never been able to select a nominee through the site, always got the 8400 error and had to call or email the concierge to do it for me.
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pilot007 is offline  
Old Sep 30, 2022, 10:25 am
  #3010  
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Originally Posted by YOWgary
Why in the world would you be entitled to a fare refund?

You paid for a fully-refundable fare, and you got it; if you'd decided to cancel your trip just before departure you'd have received a full refund. Latitude is an Economy fare, not a wink-wink-nudge-nudge shortcut to guaranteed Business Class.

If you wanted that eUp credit back, and chose to pursue it, I'd bet in your favour on receiving THAT refund.
yeah sure, but TB comfort is also a fully refundable fare (less the 10% SQM multiplier).
What kind of person in their right mind would fork double the price to pay for latitude than justing buying comfort if it weren’t for the upgrade?

Anyway, just want to point out how bad the eupgrade program has become that sometimes it’s borderline fraud to trick people into buying those over-priced Y fare (while lower fares are available).
Another example is, confirmed eupgrade used to be able to rebook up to J on schedule change with AC metal, and now that clause seems to vanish in the new rebooking guidelines.
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Old Sep 30, 2022, 11:24 am
  #3011  
 
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Originally Posted by sha8192
yeah sure, but TB comfort is also a fully refundable fare (less the 10% SQM multiplier).
What kind of person in their right mind would fork double the price to pay for latitude than justing buying comfort if it weren’t for the upgrade?
Presumably the kind of person who's read the conditions of each fare type, and wants the additional services Latitude offers that Comfort does not, like added SQM earning, priority check-in, increased baggage allowance, exemption from sports-equipment handling fees, and, as you've mentioned, the ability to request and often confirm eUpgrades outside of the 14/10/etc-day window.

Originally Posted by sha8192
just want to point out how bad the eupgrade program has become that sometimes it’s borderline fraud to trick people into buying those over-priced Y fare (while lower fares are available).
A customer's failure to read clearly-published policies does not constitute fraud on the part of the airline.

Were you told at any point that buying Latitude would guarantee you a seat in a different cabin than you paid for?

In what specific way were you "tricked" by the airline?
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Old Sep 30, 2022, 12:05 pm
  #3012  
 
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You seem to think that buying a seat in the PY cabin somehow makes you more valuable than someone who bought a seat in the Y cabin, but if you paid $1100 for PY A, why are you more valuable than someone who paid $1300 for Comfort M?
Well that's not really the decision I'm facing as the customer... I'm not going to just voluntarily pay a higher fare than what they're asking for the same flight and terms. I guess the part of the point would be if the person who paid a last-minute M fare of $1300 is worth more to AC then AC should be putting them in the big seat. From the consumer's point of view the eupgrade from PY is unambiguously worth less than the eupgrade from Latitude but it costs more which is just not a good sales pitch.

There are quirks in AC's pricing where the relationship might break down somewhat (thinking primarily of the cheap ex-Europe Latitude fares here), but in general, AC's goal is clearly to make it cheaper for people to upgrade if they've bought more expensive fares.
Well yes that's relevant to me. But even if I just search a straight up plain old return YUL-DUB on a random date I consistently see Premium Economy Lowest at approximately the same price as Latitude. $1700 for PY, $1800-$1850 for Latitude. Significantly more than "Flex" at ~$1200. (There doesn't seem to be Comfort offered at all.) Sure if this was the last minute and only M was available I would be a more valuable customer to AC but I'm not and that's not on the menu so it's not relevant to my purchasing decision.

I disagree entirely. I think they understand very well how much extra money people spend on buying higher Y fares to improve their J upgrade chances, and that's why the eUp chart is the way it is.
That's more or less true up to the PY fares. At that point it just seems to break down imho. It's like they added PY as an afterthought. It's just a bad product positioning to have a PY product that costs nearly as much as latitude but is worse for frequent fliers than economy fares. I mean... you can't possibly justify the eupgrade costs being *exactly* the same for Latitude and PY *flexible* can you? BA used to charge *half* the avios for a PY upgrade as an economy upgrade -- they inflated that but it's still significantly less than a full economy to business upgrade. AC is basically telling us here that they think PY is worthless.
zkzkz is offline  
Old Sep 30, 2022, 12:46 pm
  #3013  
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
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Originally Posted by zkzkz
AC is basically telling us here that they think PY is worthless.
I don't think that is even remotely true, based on either fare cost or service differentiation.

But I'm not sure I entirely understand your beef, unless your point is simply that e-ups are worthless. Until they're not.
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Old Sep 30, 2022, 12:49 pm
  #3014  
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The obvious solution would be to increase the number of eUps required from Latitude. Is that what you want?
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canadiancow is online now  
Old Sep 30, 2022, 1:42 pm
  #3015  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,607
Originally Posted by Bohemian1
I don't think that is even remotely true, based on either fare cost or service differentiation.
But I'm not sure I entirely understand your beef, unless your point is simply that e-ups are worthless. Until they're not.
Premium Economy (Flexible) O 11 13
Latitude Y, B 11 13
So once you've upgraded you've paid thousands extra and ended up in the same seat with the same fare terms.
Originally Posted by candiancow
The obvious solution would be to increase the number of eUps required from Latitude. Is that what you want?
Well obviously the value of eupgrades is entirely arbitrary -- if they raised the amount from Latitude and raised the amount FFs got correspondingly sure Well, I guess you mean raise Latitude and everything below it on the chart?

Last edited by zkzkz; Sep 30, 2022 at 1:58 pm
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