Many people will not pay $7K in cash for that ticket. Using points is the only way most people will ever get to fly in J.

So while $75 is chicken fee to you, it might not be to the other few million AE members.

You don't have a case with this point.

SH: It is not the fee that is the issue here but the perception that this is a cash grab by Aeroplan. This issue is the proverbial drop that made the glass overflow. Aeroplan members have had enough with nickle and diming. This issue has become a symbol and it won't go away.

I can't understand why an organization that needs the loyalty of its best customers would do such a dumb thing to alienate FF.

Edited to correct typo.



[This message has been edited by airbus320 (edited 04-14-2003).]

Sure you don't. That is precisely what you are doing.

I think it is time for a reality check Shareholder. Most of us don't use points only for last minute tickets. Most of us are not SE, and can't. The seats aren't available even if we wanted to.

I've spent around 200,000 points this year on tickets...not one point spent on last minute tickets.

I've given thousands of dollars in revenue to Air Canada (including $6000 in J for a recent trip to Asia) and to CIBC and have paid dearly for every point I have gotten, so don't tell me I'm the one that is at fault for AC's crappy financial situation and that I have to give up something to restore them to financial health.

Perhaps as a documentary filmaker, the NFB or some other benefactor pays for your travel putting you in a position of not having to care about an extra $75 (or more likely $100) every now and again. I'd venture to say that the majority here do care.

Regardless of your argument AC has promoted free flying using aeroplan miles. How people use those miles is their business.

If you noticed today the price of gasoline was around 64 cents a litre at the pump near my place down from 80 cents plus a month ago--and these guys now want to start charging a fuel surcharge--such garbage.

BTW they bought CP lock stock and barrel and had the obligation to take all assets and liabilities with them--no gift there.

As of right now AE is a wholly owned subsidiary of AC and as a result do not pay GST taxes or other sales taxes to their parent.Even if Onyx buys they will still be an AC controlled co. for taxation purposes.

We are not here to discuss the costs of airmiles.They tell you in the fine print up front you have to pay these charges.We have all accumulated miles in AE with the expectation they are "reward" mile for loyalty to AC and their partners. DC was not impressed today when I told their product manager what AC has done to big spenders like me and sure didn't like it wehen I told him I was switching to a non AC product.

I had a rsponse to an e-mail I sent to Rupert(very quick response BTW) today that almost avoided the issue altogether and I now await his response to my rebuttal.He is aware that I am in the process of changing card products and that airlines will be next if they don't honour the original intent of AE. I did this in 2001 when they fooled around and went on several international flts with other carriers in the process losing my SE status last year. Yes, they have the right to change the rules--but only with sufficient notice so people can dispose of miles should they feel this necessary.

Yes, airmiles are less flexible than AE but when you use a *A partner you lose all flexibility as well. Yes, BA has raised the threshold for premium seats but with almost six months notice and some flexibilty in that I'm told if your points have been there for some time.

If I had accumulated all my DC miles on Avion I would have several hundred thousand miles to spend on any airline in the world with particular emphasis on either BA or AA.That begins to sound a lot better to me and leaves me free of being an AE prisoner and with points that are usable anytime anywhere on any airline.

SH you should be as P*ssed as the rest of us because they are just slowly unwinding the program over time and your miles are being heavily discounted by fees. Remember your shares are now worthless.

[This message has been edited by parnel (edited 04-14-2003).]

I have quite often used Aeroplan awards for short haul domestic routes. There are plenty of routes that cost more than $450 per ticket, which would be the threshold if you value your points at $0.03/mile. But add $75 + GST to the tickets, and suddenly these awards no longer make financial sense.

Plus, hands up everyone here who thinks that the booking fee will remain at $25 and the fuel scam will be removed or reduced now that oil prices have fallen to pre-Iraq war levels. Right, I thought so.

Holy CR*P SH;

Honestly, the issue is more than the another $75.00 worth, it is the $5 charge for booze in Y, it is the whole fuel surcharge scam, it is the incessant need for the pig headed morons who control this country's national airline to nickel and dime the Canadian consumer.

Qantas just raised fares 5%, you know what, people didn't like it, but no one feels screwed over by the deal. All this fees and surcharges are CR*P!!

I was amazed when I booked a Germans Wings flight last month when the price adverised was 19 Euro, and the price I paid was 19 euro. That included all fees, taxes, whatever.

If you believe in this, why don't you send $75 my way the next time you redeem points for a ticket that would cost upwards of $2K? After all, it's only chicken feed to the overall value of the ticket received.

I take credit cards through PayPal. Sound good?

SH -

Your opinions are valid (and, of course you have the right to have them), but I have a quick question about the CP/AC merger ...

Would the Canadian Government have allowed a merger between CP and AC if AC didn't transfer over C+ points?

Here is a copy of my email to Rupert Duchesne and Robert Milton on the stupid fee thing:

"I know Air Canada is under court protection and the airline is losing piles of dough for reasons outside its control.

But the nickel and diming "booking fees" and "fuel surcharges" on aeroplan "free????" tickets is beyond insult. It is business insanity.

If you guys take a bit of time to compare the revenue you will get by this move against the bad will you will create, you will appreciate a fundamental "Business 101 failure".

But this kind of decision may explain why you are failing at business!

I know there is a paradigm shift going on in the airline business, and Air Canada is not the only airline trying desperately to overcome the problems.

But Aeroplan award tickets are not truly "free" in that they are earned two ways:

1. The passenger actually flies on revenue flights, sometimes (yes, admittedly increasingly rarely) on very high yield tickets, or

2. Air Canada/Aeroplan is PAID by a supplier, whether it be the credit card company, hotel, florist, or whatever, for these points. If you want to levy a 'fuel surcharge' or 'booking fee' why not charge your 'real' customer -- like CIBC or Primus?

Customers HATE nickel and dime fees. They think angry, and get madder out of proportion to the real cost/revenue of the fee.

They like it when fees are waived and cancelled.

I leave you with one final example.

My business is expanding in the U.S. Thankfully discount carriers now serve the routes we use, so employees can fly on convenient mid week schedules IAD ATL for about $150 Canadian, one way, taxes included.

I booked a return ticket for $300 return with AirTrans. Oops. We need to reschedule. Air trans clearly said at the time of reservation that a $50 change fee (plus fare upgrade if necessary) would apply. I was ready to pay the fee, after all $350 IAD ATL midweek is not an excessive fare!

But the reservationist, in making the change, said they would waive the change fee because the change was made on the day of the original reservation.

Do I feel loyalty ot AirTrans? Yes.

Do I feel loyalty to Air Canada. No.

Things are probably beyond repair but surely you could have researched and investigated this fee thing BEFORE 'quietly' launching it on your website.

Rupert may remember the meeting I attended last year, clutching the "Tipping Point" in my hand. Things have tipped the wrong way here!"

In addition to an e-mail to Rupert, I also sent an e-mail to R Milton. I told him that this fee had the potential to drive away the very customers that he was counting on to ensure the viability of the restructuring plan.
This booking fee could become the lightning rod that would attract the pent-up ire of FF angry at many aspects of Air Canada. Although only $25, it had the capacity to become a cause celebre, far beyond what could become a public relations disaster.

Will it have an effect? Probably not...but added to the other missives, it may get some attention.

Thanks to the person/persons who contacted the newspapers.

The Toronto Star, The Globe and Mail and the Financial Post all carry the story on the proposed new booking fee.

Perhaps the next headline will read:

"Aeroplan Members Revolt and Topple Regime" http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

In case these havn't been posted yet:

http://www.nationalpost.com/financialpost/story.html?id=CD29AE88-97DD-4151-8698-83 83EC745D59

http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/...Story/Business



[This message has been edited by jral (edited 04-15-2003).]

They're privatly petitioning to their precious insider contacts to have this fee waived for SE, or as they would like to be called, SE+.

Until they get that concession from Aeroplan, they're not about to defend AC.

The Star's view view a quote from Randy:
http://makeashorterlink.com/?M2FC15734

I guess the PR nightmare has started.