Jasper2009

Good points!

I fully agree that it is inevitable that travellers booking "discounted" long-haul tickets will earn fewer miles under a revenue-based system - even in PE/J.

And you're right - maybe the figures I used are "outliers". But it is not hard at all to find "common" examples of pax who will be impacted really badly. E.g.

West Coast - Europe r/t in PE (~$2000-$2500 AQD r/t in N/E):
- a non-status pax currently earns 15k+ AE miles and will now earn 6k-7.5k AE miles
- a SE currently earns 27k+ AE miles and will now earn 14k-17.5k AE miles (using the 7x multiplier)

YUL/YYZ-HKG/TPE r/t in J (~$3000-$3500 AQD r/t in P):
- a non-status pax currently earns ~24k AE miles and will now earn 9k-10.5k AE miles
- a SE currently earns ~40k AE miles and will now earn 21k-24.5k AE miles (using the 7x multiplier)

YUL/YYZ-HKG/TPE r/t in PE (~1700-$2000 AQD r/t in N):
- a non-status pax currently earns ~20k AE miles and will now earn 5k-6k AE miles
- a SE currently earns ~36k AE miles and will now earn 10k-14k AE miles (using the 7x multiplier)

Most travellers make their decision based on a combination of the following:

(1) price
(2) schedule
(3) product
(4) earning miles / utilizing FF benefits / earning status / etc.

You are right that many FTers are "outliers" in that they try to maximize each of these components.
Most travellers will settle for an overall combination of factors that they consider "good".
If an airline falls short in one area, they need to compensate for that in another area to generate business.
Likewise, if an airline significantly devalues one of the above factors, travellers are more likely to look at alternatives.

Some people will no doubt disagree, but I would rank AC J as one of the top overall J products on TATL routes. But assuming same/similar fares, why would anyone choose to fly AC instead of BR/CX/SQ/etc. on TPAC routes?

From a business perspective, a FF program has three main goals:

a) "rewarding" customers, in particular "more profitable" customers
b) generating incremental revenue, increasing share of wallet from a customer, increasing overall market share etc.
c) offering a compelling overall program that incentivizes customers to use as many different services as possible (e.g. co-branded credit card, booking hotels via the AE portal etc. in addition to flight activity)

The new AE program does an excellent job at rewarding those who spend a lot of money on short-haul (domestic) flights. But IMO it does a terrible job at generating (incremental) business from longhaul travellers who tend to have the greatest flexibility to choose another airline and/or FFP.

Based on my typical flying pattern, I would earn 60%-70% fewer miles. I have never booked an error fare, just happen to almost exclusively fly internationally (mainly in Lat/PE/J).

In the past the benefits of SE and the AE program as a whole made it worthwhile for me to:

1) book 90%+ of my paid flights on AC even when AC was far from the best option on a particular itinerary and
2) increase the number of trips I take per year / take more discretionary trips

With the new program, I will most likely:

1) minimize/consolidate trips and
2) move to a purely transactional and choose whatever airline offers the best overall value on a given trip (probably a mix of new BA J, CX and AC for paid flights and BA/CX/AS/AC/LH as my FFPs). Feel free to e-mail me for an in-depth discussion.

Sure, my travel patterns may not qualify as "average", but there are dertainly quite a few travellers who mainly fly internationally and have a lot of choices/flexibility.

canadiancow

Your SE numbers use a select privilege to elevate it on the old earning chart, but not the new one. You should at least compare apples to apples.

But more importantly, you're still giving examples in N and P class. Those are deep discount fares. They're not last minute O/J. Or even one week out E/D.

If you want to discuss this outside the FT-type user, you need to pick more realistic fares. Not fares purchased by people who only ever look for the best deal, but by people who have a set destination and set time, and don't usually know months in advance.

Jasper2009

Fair point. I would've used a different multiplier for the SE example if we had any information on whether there will be an additional multiplier, and if so how it will work.

Sure, there are many different types of PE/J pax. I have met pax who spend more than $1 per AQM on a regular basis.

But there are also plenty of PE/J pax:

- who are leisure pax and book several weeks/months in advance
- who are business travellers who have some control over their schedule or know about conferences / trade fairs months in advance
- who travel for business and need to work with increasingly restrictive travel policies / decreasing travel budgets / etc.

Not everyone is a consultant booking $10k J fares 24h in advance.

karachi

this is exactly why i like IHG Rewards Club. you can spend about 10 nights in a $400/night hotel and make Platinum instead of having to sleep 40 nights in cheapo places. If someone is dropping $30k on AC without going 100k miles, they've earned status and accompanying benefits. they're literally subsidizing the rest of bottom feeders.

ps. 90% of my flying is Int'l J. i normally hit $20k on AC by about 50-60k miles and then spend the rest of my money on BR and other *A. theres no incentive to give more $$ to AC.

Symmetre

I said nothing about eliminating mileage qualification, you miss the point altogether. What I said is that three or four round-trips in a year is not "frequent flying" by any measure, regardless of distance flown. But some poor sod riding a Q400 every week on a commuter run is very much a frequent flier, whether they reach SE or not.

canadiancow

No, they have not.

Status isn't meant to reward you, it's meant to incentivize more business (take discretionary trips, or book AC where you otherwise would have booked BA), or more lucrative business (Flex instead of Standard).

If anything, granting SE to someone who spends $30k on 40k SQM is more likely to spend LESS money on AC with status, because they now have ways of flying J without paying for J.

Okay, I think I agree. We should stop using the phrase "frequent flyer program" and instead say "loyalty program"?

The only* place on https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/...an/status.html with the word "frequent" is in the MM section, so I think AC agrees with you too. I think most people use it because it's what these programs are colloquially called.

It's a loyalty program, designed to extract more revenue from customers by giving them different incentives based on how much money they think they can extract.

*Technically there's an error message in the login form that mentions a "frequent flyer number", but:
1. That seems to suggest the old marketing used that term, but none of the new marketing
2. While an SE's Aeroplan number may be a "frequent flyer" number, my mom's sure isn't, yet it's still referred to as such

Jasper2009

stopovers in Canada/US on award tickets

(trying move this thread back to providing constructive suggestions)

There have been various reports that stopovers in Canada/US won't be allowed on any type of award booking.

While it's no doubt a major devaluation, I can sort of see the rationale behind eliminating stopovers on awards wholly within Canada/US since revenue tickets don't allow them either.

However, on int'l awards this seems like an unnecessary restriction/devaluation. I think a reasonable compromise would be to allow stopovers in Canada/US when the award booking includes travel from/to South America / Atlantic / Pacific.

Transpacificflyer

I have had a quick look at some of the plans and the changes, and it is just too cumbersome and complicated for me. Maybe my comments will not go down well with some members on this forum, but I just don't want to play the booking and accrual game. Redemption & accrual of these points/miles isn't a game for me. Like many others, I have spent years amassing my miles, only to see them devalued multiple times, and here we have another devaluation. No, I don't want another complex set of rules and regulations to wade through and I don't even know if the AC/AP IT system will actually be able to support all the changes and rules. I want to be able to book my redemption online and in the past, unless it was a simple RT this was not possible.

Yes, I get it that times have changed and yes on the surface I like the fact that the points are redeemable on any seat, but I just know that AC is going to embrace the Delta model that will price TPAC seats at 300,000+ miles. Sure, the charts will say one can have a lower redemption, but I have zero confidence in AC doing that as the program rolls out.

I don't mind co-paying and I would rather be able to pay a flat fee of $250 -$500 on a TPAC and have an assured option of 150,000 miles of a business class seat.
The revised accrual of mileage won't encourage me to select AC. If it wasn't for P & Z fares and the AP accrual, I would not have flown AC TPAC. Maybe I have misunderstood, but with the reduced accrual on the AC P&Z airfares, I believe that I am better off with the competition on these routes. The fact that I end up with that conclusion speaks to the complexities of the new AP program and I just don't have the time to dig through the rules and to play the games.

One of the main reasons why I flew with AC was to maintain status so that I could get the premium service on my domestic flights.I don't know if I will have that. I will most likely be spending $10,000- $15,000 with AC starting in Q3 2021, but I have no idea if that will even get me status. Maybe someone will say sure, but, it isn't clear to me and I am confused, and that isn't good. The roll out needs to be simplified. AC knows my flying patterns and my spend. It has all the data on me. Why can't it just send me a quick email that says. Based upon your flying and spend pattern of 2019 you would qualify for Gold or Silver or peon status in 2021. You would have qualified after flight 4 or something like that? When a service provider makes things complicated, busy people won't waste time and will pick the product that appears to be the best value. The new AC plan does not encourage me to pick AC.

YXUFlyboy

If all you want is premium service on domestic flights - assuming your income qualifies, get a VIP card. Priority services, check (baggage, zone 2 boarding, check-in + NEXUS), lounge access check. You can be free!

canadiancow

Based on your flying and spend pattern of 2019, you will earn the exact same status at the exact same time.

I'm not sure how they could have made that more clear.

acysb87

I know the feeling, but its on a Dash 300. AC stopped using Q400s to YSB

FlY2XS

OOH, a 300, sorry about that ; my least favourite aircraft.
Guessing you likely are on the "AQD well ahead of AQM/AQS" balance too given that situation much like I have always been - is that correct?. I leave it to others to debate if we are deserving or not.
I still haven't figured out whether the new system will be any benefit but to be frank I haven't had the time to sit down and fully digest it. I am sure that the recent points rebate offers and current redemption schedule will blow away the miles cost after Nov 8, so we have been spending like a drunken AE sailor on recent and upcoming flights.

AndrewO

Same situation with me! The new program seems to be geared to attracting new members and awarding higher spend withing NA.