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Contact tracing: Whom do you trust - Dr. Henry or AC?

Contact tracing: Whom do you trust - Dr. Henry or AC?

Old Aug 5, 20, 10:44 am
  #16  
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Originally Posted by ridefar View Post
Since an email isn't sufficient to do contract tracing, then I assume you are agreeing that the current AC system and the passenger manifest are insufficient for contract tracing purposes?
I don't agree that an email isn't sufficient. I think it's better than a phone. If an unknown number calls me, I'm unlikely to answer. If an unknown email emails me, I'll still see the subject, and can then make a decision as to open it.

In my experience, younger crowds are much less likely to answer a phone call than older crowds. There isn't going to be a one-size-fits-all solution.

Originally Posted by ridefar View Post
Even a single phone number is not sufficient. Somebody could provide their home (land line) number and not their cell when travelling.

Mobile # and destination address and alternate contact with same detail would seem to me to be a reasonable minimum. How hard would that be to collect at checkin? I don't know; you probably have a lot better grasp of that than I do. I know the actual programming would be fairly trivial, but it is the privacy, infrastructure, db modifications, etc. that are the rub.
They already have a field in OLCI that asks for a number you can be contacted at during travel. They could easily make that mandatory. It doesn't require any other modifications, as it already gets stored on the PNR.
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Old Aug 5, 20, 10:51 am
  #17  
 
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Originally Posted by canadiancow View Post
I don't agree that an email isn't sufficient. I think it's better than a phone. If an unknown number calls me, I'm unlikely to answer. If an unknown email emails me, I'll still see the subject, and can then make a decision as to open it.

In my experience, younger crowds are much less likely to answer a phone call than older crowds. There isn't going to be a one-size-fits-all solution.
Fair point. Unless the spam filter trashes the email.

I think the right answer is all of the above and more. Destination address. Emergency or alternate contact. Look at it from the perspective of a medical contract tracer, not from the perspective of the airline (which doesn't seem to think they should have to do anything different to accommodate the pandemic).

Edit to add: I am not sure email would work. Canadian medical and health authorities have a huge issue (unreasonably so, IMO) about using email and it can't be used for almost any real communication for "privacy reasons". Staying well clear of the discussion about whether this is justified, I would just not that I wouldn't be at all surprised if they actually can't use email for contract tracing by law.
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Last edited by ridefar; Aug 5, 20 at 10:59 am
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Old Aug 5, 20, 1:07 pm
  #18  
 
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Whatever the reasons, if AC wishes to encourage people to fly again, it is going to have to take the initiative and be able to provide full contact information.
The obligation lies with Air Canada to know who its passengers are and to be able to advise those passengers when they are exposed to a dangerous situation.
We know that the health authorities and airlines have a problem with contact tracing and they had it long before Covid19 came along. Remember the problems when people arrived on aircraft and they were infected with measles? AC couldn't quickly identify who had sat in close proximity to the infected.

One of the issues may be the manner in which data is shared. The data report AC may provide may be in a different format than what the provincial health systems can use. This is illustrated with the testing data in some provinces Many of the regional health boards couldn't communicate properly with the central ministry of health. The perfect example is Quebec where data was being faxed to the central data center because each health region had a different way of compiling data, so electronic data transfer was impossible. A worker would take the fax and rekey the information resulting in time delay and data entry errors.

And to reinforce the earlier comment about the use of email, health care providers will not communicate directly by email. For the sake of privacy, calls in respect to medical issues are made anonymously. For privacy sensitive information, the CRA illustrates how it is done; They will first send an mail to the taxpayer file mailbox and the taxpayer logs in to read the email. It isn't efficient when time matters.
Thousands of US students will be entering Canada this month. Their universities are taking effective measures to trace and isolate those students, and with those measures, the risk will be managed. Meanwhile, AC offers empty gestures and wonders why it can't generate public support to ease the toothless regulations.
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Old Aug 5, 20, 1:26 pm
  #19  
 
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One additional point on this: I understand based on CBC's reporting that the Quarantine Act does not empower federal government to mandate contract tracing information be provided by airlines except for foreign nationals. So you can take that in a bunch of ways: AC has the capability but just can't be fussed to do it for domestic flights; they actually do collect additional information for foreign entrants to the country on international flights (not sure what besides relevant visa information) or that the federal government just can't be fussed to amend the Act to allow them to mandate the information be collected or make the demand of the airlines. Amongst others.
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Old Aug 5, 20, 7:16 pm
  #20  
 
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I recently booked domestic flights for me, my brother in law and Adult nephew.

Air Canada only ever had my emails address and contact information.

I checked us all in online.

Air Canada never had any contact information for my nephew nor my brother in law.
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Old Aug 5, 20, 11:06 pm
  #21  
 
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Originally Posted by Plumber View Post
I recently booked domestic flights for me, my brother in law and Adult nephew.

Air Canada only ever had my emails address and contact information.

I checked us all in online.

Air Canada never had any contact information for my nephew nor my brother in law.
When I go to a restaurant, only one member of the party is asked to provide a number.
Surely if AC contacted you, you would help them find your traveling companions?
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Old Aug 6, 20, 3:24 am
  #22  
 
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Originally Posted by tracon View Post
Surely if AC contacted you, you would help them find your traveling companions?
Yes of course... but it just add steps and complication to the contact tracing process.
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Old Aug 6, 20, 8:27 am
  #23  
 
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Originally Posted by canadiancow View Post
I don't agree that an email isn't sufficient. I think it's better than a phone. If an unknown number calls me, I'm unlikely to answer. If an unknown email emails me, I'll still see the subject, and can then make a decision as to open it.

In my experience, younger crowds are much less likely to answer a phone call than older crowds. There isn't going to be a one-size fits-all solution.
Text message.

I have yet to meet a member of a “younger crowd” who fails to notice and/or open an incoming text.
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Old Aug 6, 20, 8:39 am
  #24  
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Originally Posted by canadiancow View Post
In my experience, younger crowds are much less likely to answer a phone call than older crowds.
I'm certainly not part of the "younger crowd", but I never answer my phone if I don't recognize the number. If it's important, they should leave a message.
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Old Aug 6, 20, 10:30 am
  #25  
 
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This is really bizzare. AC should be doing anything and everything to satisfy its customers that it is taking all precautionary steps. That would include working well with any level of govt to ensure contact tracing. AC is trumpeting its new cleaning standards. Contact tracing is equally important. There are almost daily reports of cases on flights. Can you imagine the optics of multiple cases on a AC flight and the nightmare of people not knowing it they have been in contact ? It would be the death of travel on AC which is counter productive to what AC wants. In this case they should bend backwards to align with whatever feds/provincial health requires. With no social distancing on flights and being obstinate with govt health requests, AC is shooting itself in the foot.
Hawaii will allow passengers from Canada from 05 Sept provided that they have a negative COVID test in the 5 days before travel. If you do not have the test, you will need to quarantine in Hawaii. You still need to quarantine in Canada on return. I would expect AC to be able to 1) inform customers of this requirement and 2) provide contact info to both the govt in Hawaii and fed/provincial govt on return.
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Old Aug 6, 20, 10:47 am
  #26  
 
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Originally Posted by tracon View Post
When I go to a restaurant, only one member of the party is asked to provide a number.
Surely if AC contacted you, you would help them find your traveling companions?
While this my be true, why should we be satisfied with this? What if your travelling companions have since moved on to another local, time zone, contact number, or address? There are lots of reasons why contact information should be gathered for *every* customer on an AC plane. And as others have pointed out, at some point AC's approach is going to become pretty self defeating. Their refusal to do anything more than the absolute minimum (what does it really amount to now except handing out some hand sanitizer -- the cost of which is no doubt more than offset by the savings from cutting other services) is pretty obvious to everybody. At some point perception is going to matter a lot -- like it does for so many things in aviation. AC should at least make an effort to care as much as the average Canadian about social distancing, contact tracing, and bearing a share of the economic and social cost of the pandemic. And yes I know they are bearing a significant economic cost; but honestly they give the impression of a company that believes they are just victims and not part of the solution.
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Old Aug 6, 20, 11:12 am
  #27  
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Originally Posted by vernonc View Post
This is really bizzare. AC should be doing anything and everything to satisfy its customers that it is taking all precautionary steps.
Agreed.

But it's not 100% sure AC agrees. They want people to fly, so they/marketing want people to feel safe. Hence not emphsizing that there is a risk associated with covid. Reminds me of the euphemistic and rather stupid announcement "if the pressure changes" for sudden decompression.

They also want the govt to change the rules to allow for more people to fly. Even though clearly that will stand in the way of controlling the beast. Same attitude really.

All about having it both ways. And/or indulging in self-serving wishful thinking. But then they are not the only ones. Thinking for instance of those who want schools to reopen. Mainly so as to provide parents with daytime baby sitting. L:ikewise about the economy to recover. And yes, there is a tradeoff somewhere. But back to AC, especially for those of us who are high risk, it's our life that is on the line.
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Old Aug 6, 20, 9:10 pm
  #28  
 
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Fairly certain that at least 1 "FONE" field is mandatory when creating (and saving) a PNR on any system, no?

Address and DOB is definitely not. In fact, I think only billing address is stored, and only on the issuing PNR's payment section.

Source (page 74):

A PNR must include a contact element (to indicate where passengers can be contacted) before you make an end of transaction during PNR creation or after PNR retrieval. Every passenger in the PNR must be covered by a contact element. A PNR can contain a maximum of 127 contact elements.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwi266Tjj4jrAhXNJ TQIHS05BOQQFjANegQIChAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amade us.com%2Fir%2Fdocuments%2Faco%2Fir%2Fen%2Famadeus_ air_reservation.pdf&usg=AOvVaw0mpQtf9XnAykibZXHkwg 6L
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Last edited by SparseFlyer; Aug 6, 20 at 9:20 pm
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Old Aug 6, 20, 9:20 pm
  #29  
 
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It's amazing to me that in an ongoing pandemic, AC does not want to do everything reasonably possible to help out.
They could have spun this to their advantage, but now its too late.
What were they thinking?
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Old Aug 7, 20, 10:48 am
  #30  
 
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Originally Posted by SparseFlyer View Post
Fairly certain that at least 1 "FONE" field is mandatory when creating (and saving) a PNR on any system, no?

Address and DOB is definitely not. In fact, I think only billing address is stored, and only on the issuing PNR's payment section.

Source (page 74):



https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...nAykibZXHkwg6L
Is an element an alphanumeric character or a field?
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