Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Miles&Points > Airlines and Mileage Programs > Air Canada | Aeroplan
Reload this Page >

Master thread Air Canada Refunds vs credits; Class action lawsuit filed

Old Dec 10, 2020, 7:55 pm
FlyerTalk Forums Expert How-Tos and Guides
Last edit by: Adam Smith
As of April 13, 2021 (in conjunction with the federal government bailout), AC is providing refunds for flights cancelled due to COVID, which applies to tickets with travel after February 1, 2020, and purchased before April 13, 2021. This includes flights cancelled by customers rather than AC.

Going forward (i.e. tickets purchased on or after April 13, 2021), cancelled flights will be refunded if AC does not offer a re-booking option with departure +/- 3 hours from the original time.

AC refund portal

Online refund request form

Press release on the bailout
Print Wikipost

Master thread Air Canada Refunds vs credits; Class action lawsuit filed

Old Apr 6, 2020, 9:59 pm
  #106  
Moderator, Air Canada; FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: YYC
Programs: AC SE MM, FB Plat, WS Plat, BA Silver, DL GM, Marriott Plat, Hilton Gold, Accor Silver
Posts: 16,836
Originally Posted by Transpacificflyer
The issue of not responding to customers for extended periods of time, the lack of clear communication combined with the refusal to refund monies owed ,suggest that the airline did not have an appropriate plan.
Oh, really? What would been an "appropriate plan" for a pandemic on a scale not seen for 100 years? And if call volumes to the call centre were 5x, or 10x normal levels, due to the massive number of disruptions, what's an "appropriate plan" for that? You can't have access to 5x or 10x your usual staff levels.

Operationally, AC seems to have actually functioned fairly smoothly through this whole mess. While contacting them to change flights may have been painful, I don't recall hearing any stories about AC cancelling flights because it couldn't get crews, making last-minute cancellations of its own volition and stranding passengers in faraway locales, or people showing up at the airport to find their flights werent operating or they had been bumped because of a downgauge, etc. So, from an operational perspective, their pandemic response plan seems to have functioned okay.

I can also say that, having had to deal with a bunch of other airlines during the mess of the past month or so (AF, SQ, LX, BA, AZ, U2), ACs response was not out of line, which suggests that either a whole ton of airlines didnt have appropriate plans, or that your expectation for what constitutes an appropriate plan is out of line.

I do not accept that Air Canada had a reasonable belief that it would still be operating its flights. [...] The failure of a government to act appropriately, does not alleviate a person or organization's own duty of care, particularly when there is a written indication from the government of what to expect in the event of a pandemic.
Studies and theory are all well and good, but life in the real world is messy. On what date did AC no longer have a reasonable belief that it could operate the flight to FCO? On February 17th, did it have a reasonable belief that it would be able to operate to FCO on March 12th? Or March 19th? What about on March 1st, should it have known whether could operate on the 8th? And what about FRA, LHR, or countless other destinations?

The bottom line is that if AC were providing customers with a full (and timely) refund for flights it had cancelled (which is the subject of this thread), none of this would really matter.
seawolf likes this.
Adam Smith is offline  
Old Apr 7, 2020, 7:48 am
  #107  
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: BKK/SIN/YYZ/YUL
Programs: DL, AC, Bonvoy, Accor, Dusit
Posts: 2,936
The legal filing makes allegations that will link back to the airline's preparedness and organizational strategy. If you read the pandemic plan(s), both those made public and those which are part of a business continuity plan, you will see that cities subject to large infections would be expected to have travel restrictions. My position was that key events were expected based upon the modeling that was available before the event. And yet the airline chose to keep selling return tickets without a caution to customers.

In respect to the service response, you have ignored the fact that Air Canada has repeatedly shown a difficulty in providing service when there are conditions that are outside of "regular". The refusal to refund is part of that response. Whether the lack of response is by design as I believe, or just Air Canada falling victim to things like a snow storm in Canada (imagine that, a transportation company being surprised by a snowstorm, in Canada) will be up to the court to decide.

Yes, this event is unique and Canada as a whole was disorganized and slow to respond. Despite your insistence, our collective failure cannot be used as a means to excuse individual wrongful acts. The law requires companies, and their directors, to maintain a duty of care. Those of us who are now working in accordance with our organization's pandemic and business continuity plan will not be so quick to agree with your position. Other companies like EVA and China Airlines have performed well, but then they have a tested response plan and demonstrate why Taiwan is the world leader in pandemic response. Have a look at our utilities, our pharma manufacturers and food processors. They have had robust pandemic plans for 10 years+ and it is reflected in their response. IMO, Air Canada chose to take the risk. I don't know why the airline won't refund money, It may be because it believes that it does not have to refund, or it may be because the funds to process the refunds and to pay other obligations isn't available. We all agree it isn't right.

Last edited by Transpacificflyer; Apr 7, 2020 at 7:57 am
Transpacificflyer is offline  
Old Apr 7, 2020, 8:01 am
  #108  
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Programs: EVA Air , * G, QR Privilege Club S
Posts: 5,273
Originally Posted by hoipolloi
It looks like most insurances will decline coverage if a credit is offered: Advisory: Travel cancellation insurance and airline vouchers or credits
This is very interesting. I wonder who will sue who if any of these Canadian airlines go under and the Transport Authority endorsement is going to be used in the case?
Ultimately it's going to be the tax payers money. Governments should not take side of big business in these kind of issues. The public has a right to be refunded if companies can't provide the agreed service.
hoipolloi likes this.
Davvidd is offline  
Old Apr 7, 2020, 9:22 am
  #109  
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: YUL
Posts: 1,007
I just got an email saying they have changed my daughters YUL - BRU flight from April 24th to April 27th.

When I go to the my booking page, it offers to let me "acknowledge new flight", "view new flights" or I could "cancel booking". If I hit cancel will they give me a refund?
Bogwoppit is offline  
Old Apr 7, 2020, 10:24 am
  #110  
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Programs: Marriott Gold, Hilton Diamond, Radisson Rewards Gold, Best Western Diamond Select
Posts: 1,857
Originally Posted by Bogwoppit
I just got an email saying they have changed my daughters YUL - BRU flight from April 24th to April 27th.

When I go to the my booking page, it offers to let me "acknowledge new flight", "view new flights" or I could "cancel booking". If I hit cancel will they give me a refund?
Doubt it.
Bogwoppit likes this.
slickvik is offline  
Old Apr 7, 2020, 10:25 am
  #111  
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Programs: Marriott Gold, Hilton Diamond, Radisson Rewards Gold, Best Western Diamond Select
Posts: 1,857
Originally Posted by yyz_consulted
Called AC today about the enforcement notice, talked to a reservations agent and a concierge and they both said that they have been told the policy is not changing due to the DOT enforcement notice as "Air Canada is a Canadian company." Not sure that logic checks out. So back to weighing chargeback vs insurance options.
I did too and just filed chargeback with Amex. No point in waiting for AC to do the right thing.
slickvik is offline  
Old Apr 7, 2020, 11:19 am
  #112  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: YYZ & TPA
Programs: AC E75K, MR/SPG Plat Ambassador, UA G
Posts: 108
Originally Posted by slickvik
I did too and just filed chargeback with Amex. No point in waiting for AC to do the right thing.
Please keep the Forum updated on outcome. I just filed a DOT complaint myself.
yyz_consulted is offline  
Old Apr 7, 2020, 12:50 pm
  #113  
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Halifax
Programs: AC SE100K, Marriott Lifetime Platinum Elite. NEXUS
Posts: 4,583
Originally Posted by Bogwoppit
I just got an email saying they have changed my daughters YUL - BRU flight from April 24th to April 27th.

When I go to the my booking page, it offers to let me "acknowledge new flight", "view new flights" or I could "cancel booking". If I hit cancel will they give me a refund?
Under normal circumstances, a change of more than 4 hours would have you entitled to a refund if you aren't ok with the change.
hoipolloi likes this.
RangerNS is offline  
Old Apr 7, 2020, 12:59 pm
  #114  
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 1,205
ACCredit, eCoupon, and Travel Vouchers vs flight credit

When are ACCredit, eCoupon, or Travel Vouchers issued ? These instruments are transferrable and keep their residual value.
https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/...-vouchers.html

Why can't Air Canada issue them in place of the restrictive (non-transferrable, loses residual value) flight credits that they are trying to force down customers throats for covid-19 cancellations ?
hoipolloi is offline  
Old Apr 7, 2020, 2:10 pm
  #115  
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: YUL
Posts: 1,007
Originally Posted by RangerNS
Under normal circumstances, a change of more than 4 hours would have you entitled to a refund if you aren't ok with the change.
That is what I was hoping for. My previous booking YUL to BRU for myself and hubby had a 24 hour change a few months back. I even accepted the change, and I was able to get a full refund. This was March 20th.

Calling today got me nothing like that. Agent clearly stressed, kept talking about current situation and air Canada going bankrupt etc etc.

Daughter has a voucher to be used by April 2022. She is less than impressed.
Bogwoppit is offline  
Old Apr 7, 2020, 2:49 pm
  #116  
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Programs: EVA Air , * G, QR Privilege Club S
Posts: 5,273
Originally Posted by Bogwoppit
That is what I was hoping for. My previous booking YUL to BRU for myself and hubby had a 24 hour change a few months back. I even accepted the change, and I was able to get a full refund. This was March 20th.

Calling today got me nothing like that. Agent clearly stressed, kept talking about current situation and air Canada going bankrupt etc etc.

Daughter has a voucher to be used by April 2022. She is less than impressed.
If AC is going bankrupt it's obvious no one is going to accept any vouchers. All would want a refund.
Bogwoppit, tecate55 and Snuupy like this.
Davvidd is offline  
Old Apr 7, 2020, 3:41 pm
  #117  
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: YUL
Posts: 1,007
Originally Posted by dav662
If AC is going bankrupt it's obvious no one is going to accept any vouchers. All would want a refund.

We will push for a chargeback through her CC.
tecate55 and hoipolloi like this.
Bogwoppit is offline  
Old Apr 7, 2020, 4:36 pm
  #118  
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: MEX
Programs: AC E75K
Posts: 4,192
Looks like CTA is deviating from the US and EU stance:

[quote]Passengers hoping for refunds for cancelled flights will be out of luck

Canadian airline customers whose travel plans are upended by the COVID-19 pandemic and travel restrictions can get credits from the carriers, but have no right to a refund, according to changes made by the federal government.

Canada’s move to waive airlines’ responsibilities to give customers their money back sets it apart from Europe and the United States, where airlines have been ordered by regulators to provide refunds to people whose flights were cancelled due to the pandemic.

Last edited by tcook052; Apr 7, 2020 at 4:50 pm Reason: Against FT Rules to cut & paste news articles in their entirety
capedreamer is offline  
Old Apr 7, 2020, 4:53 pm
  #119  
Original Member
 
Join Date: May 1998
Location: NYC
Programs: AA 2MM, Bonvoy LTT, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 14,682
Originally Posted by capedreamer
Nothing new in this article that wasn't already covered in this thread. The article refer to CTA post on March 25 which is the CTA statement on vouchers.
hoipolloi likes this.
seawolf is offline  
Old Apr 7, 2020, 4:58 pm
  #120  
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: MEX
Programs: AC E75K
Posts: 4,192
Originally Posted by seawolf
Nothing new in this article that wasn't already covered in this thread. The article refer to CTA post on March 25 which is the CTA statement on vouchers.
Oops. Sorry. Haven't been following this thread closely.

tcook052 - Feel free to delete!
capedreamer is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Manage Preferences - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.