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Master thread Air Canada Refunds vs credits; Class action lawsuit filed

Old Dec 10, 2020, 7:55 pm
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As of April 13, 2021 (in conjunction with the federal government bailout), AC is providing refunds for flights cancelled due to COVID, which applies to tickets with travel after February 1, 2020, and purchased before April 13, 2021. This includes flights cancelled by customers rather than AC.

Going forward (i.e. tickets purchased on or after April 13, 2021), cancelled flights will be refunded if AC does not offer a re-booking option with departure +/- 3 hours from the original time.

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Master thread Air Canada Refunds vs credits; Class action lawsuit filed

Old Apr 4, 2020, 10:02 pm
  #76  
 
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Originally Posted by hoipolloi
the question on whether Air Canada should have continued to operate flights or allow bookings is a bit out of topic with regards to the subject of this thread (refunds)
No it is not. I suggest that you read the complaint again. In particular, section i of the complaint;
i. further, or in the alternative, an Order that the Defendants pay damages to each Class Member including: special damages, general damages, nominal damages, and/or punitive damages;

Usually, when punitive damages are sought, there is an allegation of a wrongful act or acts. This isn't a compensatory damage. It is intended to punish wrongful conduct. The onus is on the plaintiff(s) to prove the allegation. As the sale of airline tickets was lawful, the plaintiff(s) will need to show an egregious act or a willful intent to do harm. Therefore, the manner in which the airlines conducted themselves should be at the core of the plaintiff case.
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Old Apr 4, 2020, 10:17 pm
  #77  
 
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I really feel like this is so similar to ambulance-chasing, as the similarities are quite clearly there...

At least air passenger rights doesn't appear to be behind this one!
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Old Apr 4, 2020, 10:25 pm
  #78  
 
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Can' someone tell me if latitude fares will still be refunded? It seems contractually a fully-refundable fare should be refundable, none of this cheap discount economy stuff
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Old Apr 4, 2020, 10:27 pm
  #79  
 
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Originally Posted by canadianoxen
Can' someone tell me if latitude fares will still be refunded? It seems contractually a fully-refundable fare should be refundable, none of this cheap discount economy stuff
I can't imagine they would! Basic fares maybe, but I don't think latitude fares would be.
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Old Apr 5, 2020, 7:39 am
  #80  
 
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Originally Posted by codfather
I really feel like this is so similar to ambulance-chasing, as the similarities are quite clearly there...
At least air passenger rights doesn't appear to be behind this one!
Not being argumentative here, but do ask you to appreciate that the "little person" usually gets ignored by the airline and does not have the means to seek redress. A class action is the only viable option. Please refer Section 19 of the filing;
19. lt is an express and/or implied term of each of the Defendants' Domestic Tariffs, International Tariffs, and/or Contract of Carriage that passengers have a fundamental right to a refund of the monies paid if the air carrier is unable to transport them for any reason that is outside the passengers' contract and that the carrier cannot keep the fare paid by the passengers and refuse to provide a refund on the basis that its inability to provide transportation was due to certain events. -

I am no fan of class action litigation, but often it is the most effective means for injured parties of limited financial means and without access to specialized legal counsel to obtain a measure of justice from an airline, especially Air Canada. I believe that this is the law firm that obtained the December 2019 settlement of $500 per member, on the 2015 Flight Pass fiasco.
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Old Apr 5, 2020, 9:50 am
  #81  
 
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Air Canada tricking people to cancel first to disqualify them from refunds

Air Canada sending emails to customers asking them to "confirm" or cancel their booking. It's a TRAP! The flights will most likely get cancelled by Air Canada itself. By having the customers cancel first, Air Canada ensures the customers will no longer be in a position to be entitled to be reimbursed for services paid but not rendered.

As reported in this FlyerTalk news article, it's better to neither cancel nor accept a voucher and to wait as much as possible in order to have better leverage if the airline cancels the flights first.
https://www.flyertalk.com/articles/d...ed-flight.html


What's the use if the "confirm booking" button in those emails? will Air Canada operate the flight if enough people "confirm" their bookings ?



Last edited by hoipolloi; Apr 5, 2020 at 9:59 am
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Old Apr 5, 2020, 10:06 am
  #82  
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Originally Posted by hoipolloi
Air Canada sending emails to customers asking them to "confirm" or cancel their booking. It's a TRAP! The flights will most likely get cancelled by Air Canada itself. By having the customers cancel first, Air Canada ensures the customers will no longer be in a position to be entitled to be reimbursed for services paid but not rendered.

As reported in this FlyerTalk news article, it's better to neither cancel nor accept a voucher and to wait as much as possible in order to have better leverage if the airline cancels the flights first.
https://www.flyertalk.com/articles/d...ed-flight.html


What's the use if the "confirm booking" button in those emails? will Air Canada operate the flight if enough people "confirm" their bookings ?

......

Tricks? Tricking? If you are so annoyed, perhaps worth calling the CBC, Global.... and explain to them to tell their readers and viewers what to do, or just direct them to read AC FT. I am quite sure many out there do not understand the options or the impact that their flights have been cancelled or re-routed, nor the valuable resource that FT can be. No need to start a new thread when this one already exists.
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Old Apr 5, 2020, 10:06 am
  #83  
 
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Originally Posted by canadianoxen
Can' someone tell me if latitude fares will still be refunded? It seems contractually a fully-refundable fare should be refundable, none of this cheap discount economy stuff
Fully refunded. Cancelled one the end of March and the full amount was credited back to my credit card.
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Old Apr 5, 2020, 10:21 am
  #84  
 
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Originally Posted by 24left
Tricks? Tricking? If you are so annoyed, perhaps worth calling the CBC, Global.... and explain to them to tell their readers and viewers what to do, or just direct them to read AC FT. I am quite sure many out there do not understand the options or the impact that their flights have been cancelled or re-routed, nor the valuable resource that FT can be. No need to start a new thread when this one already exists.
the media are already being contacted and are reporting and following the issue. Thanks to the mod for moving my thread here.
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Old Apr 5, 2020, 10:51 am
  #85  
 
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Originally Posted by hoipolloi
Air Canada sending emails to customers asking them to "confirm" or cancel their booking. It's a TRAP! The flights will most likely get cancelled by Air Canada itself.
Can't say about refund-ability, but Operationally I disagree with this view. Problem right now in the people transportation business is we simply don't know how this will pan out moving forward. For example:

> We don't know how governments will react (i.e. governments going to impose/relax restrictions). Even PM Trudeau doesn't know how long we need to hunker down.
> Do people still want to travel after all of this? Have their plans change? Are they going to be "socially spaced out"
> What & how much resources & demand is left and how can the airline gauge/accommodate/coordinate this "remaining" demand
> Finally when and how can service be recovered (and its probably not gonna be a flip switch approach).....

Not as easy as a snap decision. As I see it, airlines are trying to continue/protect service later on this year. However, if circumstances becomes unfavourable they will need to decide on what/how long service needs to be cut.
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Old Apr 5, 2020, 11:11 am
  #86  
 
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Originally Posted by hoipolloi
Air Canada sending emails to customers asking them to "confirm" or cancel their booking. It's a TRAP! The flights will most likely get cancelled by Air Canada itself. By having the customers cancel first, Air Canada ensures the customers will no longer be in a position to be entitled to be reimbursed for services paid but not rendered.

As reported in this FlyerTalk news article, it's better to neither cancel nor accept a voucher and to wait as much as possible in order to have better leverage if the airline cancels the flights first.
https://www.flyertalk.com/articles/d...ed-flight.html


What's the use if the "confirm booking" button in those emails? will Air Canada operate the flight if enough people "confirm" their bookings ?

Yes I got this email too. I was under the Impression however that even if AC cancels the flight they will still not refund, only 24 month credit. So I'm not sure how much more leverage we gain by waiting for AC to cancel the flights. I don't recall seeing too much success with that argument on this thread (though of course I do agree a refund is due).
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Old Apr 5, 2020, 11:21 am
  #87  
 
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Originally Posted by eyeball1
Yes I got this email too. I was under the Impression however that even if AC cancels the flight they will still not refund, only 24 month credit. So I'm not sure how much more leverage we gain by waiting for AC to cancel the flights. I don't recall seeing too much success with that argument on this thread (though of course I do agree a refund is due).
You may get leverage against Air Canada for a refund later if you sue or if politicians and regulators force it to refund flights it cancelled. If that happens, Air Canada, may only be forced to refund reservations it cancelled, not reservations cancelled proactively by customers. That's what is happening in the US.

For the moment, Air Canada is choosing to ignore and not comply with any regulations that entitle customers to refunds
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Old Apr 5, 2020, 11:53 am
  #88  
 
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Originally Posted by hoipolloi
You may get leverage against Air Canada for a refund later if you sue or if politicians and regulators force it to refund flights it cancelled. If that happens, Air Canada, may only be forced to refund reservations it cancelled, not reservations cancelled proactively by customers. That's what is happening in the US.

For the moment, Air Canada is choosing to ignore and not comply with any regulations that entitle customers to refunds
How long until they comply with DOT regulations?
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Old Apr 5, 2020, 4:08 pm
  #89  
 
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Originally Posted by slickvik
How long until they comply with DOT regulations?
I don't know, but I just filed complaints with the US DOT against Air Canada and several other Canadian airlines to point out the airlines' failure to comply with the DOT enforcement notice, as the airlines have not yet updated their public refund policies and contract of carriages to clearly indicate that they offer refunds even when disruptions are outside their control.

https://www.transportation.gov/sites...3%202020_0.pdf
.....
....
The longstanding obligation of carriers to provide refunds for flights that carriers cancel or significantly delay does not cease when the flight disruptions are outside of the carrier’s control.
.....
.....
Aviation Enforcement Office will refrain from pursuing an enforcement action against a carrier that provided passengers vouchers for future travel in lieu of refunds for cancelled or significantly delayed flights during the COVID-19 public health emergency so long as: (1) the carrier contacts, in a timely manner, the passengers provided vouchers for flights that the carrier cancelled or significantly delayed to notify those passengers that they have the option of a refund; (2) the carrier updates its refund policies and contract of carriage provisions to make clear that it provides refunds to passengers if the carrier cancels a flight or makes a significant schedule change; and (3) the carrier reviews with its personnel, including reservationists, ticket counter agents, refund personnel, and other customer service professionals, the circumstances under which refunds should be made.
I hope the complains will lead to the airlines complying faster. When they will comply, I hope they will be in an awkward (untenable?) position where they publicly offer refunds for flights to/from the US but not for domestic flights in Canada or other international flights.
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Old Apr 5, 2020, 6:16 pm
  #90  
 
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I have received an email from AC canceling my flight. But they are asking me to get a credit or if I ask for a refund it's a pitiful amount. It's a non refundable ticket but if they cancel it then they should give me the full amount. This is a domestic flight. I am going to write to Transport Authority in Canada.
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