jerryhung

Upcoming end of May AC flight is cancelled but so far no refund yet. I plan to call in later when things clear up
Booked via AC.com (thankfully) for ~$600

Honestly I wish AC gets creative
- either offer say 120% credit or 100% cash (which is what Singapore SCOOT airline is doing)
- heck, offer Aeroplans? I'd take 60K miles for $600 refund?

Adam Smith

Why would you be expecting one, given they announced on March 18th that they would no longer be providing them for cancellations as of the 19th?

hoipolloi

Perhaps, he's hoping mounting pressure will lead Air Canada to relent and start offering refunds or a reasonable alternative

mathemagic

With the $300M+ or so that AC is getting in free taxpayer $ to pay their employees, that should make cash available for refunds. Come on AC.

Repooc17

Just had a call with AC to check on my now 1 month old refund status, and the customer representative is telling me refunds are now taking 3 months or more - what?

I had cancelled my ticket a month ago via AC's special refund provision for flights to/from China + Hong Kong. Thousands of dollars I may not see until the summer?

RangerNS

What free'd up cash? How much do you think it costs to cover an employee who isn't getting paid?

hoipolloi

Initiate a chargeback dispute with your card issuer under the motive of "credit/refund not processed". If Air Canada sees that, they will accelerate the refund, otherwise it will forced upon them by your bank and card network.

Adam Smith

AC has never automatically provided refunds for involuntary cancellations, it was always up to the customer to initiate the refund.

That cash is specifically to pay employees, not customers.

mathemagic

This cash injection means they will have more revenues than otherwise. Because the net effect is positive cash flow for them vs not getting this benefit (even when employees are paid) they theoretically do indeed have more resources available. They thus would have more cash to pay out some refunds than they would without the benefit.

I would also offer than these customers are not expecting to get "paid". They're simply expecting $ that is theirs to begin with.

Adam Smith

These employees aren't currently getting paid, or were about to not be getting paid. Every dollar in is going out to an employee. So there's no extra cash for AC.

I'm on record numerous times in this thread and others as disagreeing with AC's position. But it's not realistic to expect funds from a wage subsidy program - whose explicit goal is to help employees - to go to customers.

mathemagic

Around half of AC employees were laid off, so 50% of overall wages are being paid by the company. Introducing a 75% subsidy and rehiring the half back means AC is now covering 25% of overall wages. A net benefit. This does assume that most employees will not be paid in excess of the benefit maximum, which may be a flawed assumption. But nevertheless I would have to believe AC is doing this because it believes there is a net benefit to its cash flow, and it is more likely than not that it yields extra cash (and of course better for the employees).

ABG

at least you have stopped suggesting the Class Action Lawsuit as the salvation for people hoping for refunds over credits

Adam Smith

I don't know where you get your numbers, but far more than half of FAs and pilots were laid off, and huge numbers of call centre staff (despite that, call centre wait times are frequently zero even for non-status pax), but it's unlikely that this is a net benefit to AC today. The benefit to AC is in the intangible of maintaining goodwill with employees and a smoother return to operations when things normalize. The latter may generate some cash savings down the road, but is unlikely to do anything for AC's cash flow today. And most of the pilots and even many FAs will be making more than the maximum of this program, meaning AC may not be getting a 75% subsidy for what it's actually paying them.

Regardless, the government has launched this program to put money in the pockets of employees and is trying to ensure that every dollar it pays goes to an employee. So you're ultimately suggesting taking money out of the pockets of employees to put it in customers' pockets.

The government can force AC (and WS, TS, etc) to issue refunds at any time and figure out where to squeeze its other needs to find the cash. Or it can provide a bailout package with strings attached. But the wage subsidy is not the right place to be looking for that money.

eigenvector

Indeed. The CEWS program isn't intended to keep companies afloat, it's intended to support the entire Canadian economy by minimising labour market friction when things do get going again. It would probably be better for AC's short-term cash position to put everyone on EI/CERB.

The government has plenty of regulatory authority to force AC to provide refunds for some portion of its consumers any time it wants. It does not seem inclined to address this issue in the short term and I'd imagine that a lot of people in Ottawa are seized with other issues that they feel are more pressing right now.

For what it's worth, I think AC pulled a brilliant move by sending out the "confirm your travel plans" emails - they got a huge number of people to cancel voluntarily and likely exclude themselves from benefiting in any future regulatory action on involuntary cancellations. I bet the US3 wish they had thought of that before April 3.

Adam Smith

They've also sent out that e-mail to people who already had schedule changes that should qualify them for refunds though, so I'm not sure the intent was quite so malicious.