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Master thread Air Canada Refunds vs credits; Class action lawsuit filed

Old Dec 10, 2020, 7:55 pm
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Last edit by: Adam Smith
As of April 13, 2021 (in conjunction with the federal government bailout), AC is providing refunds for flights cancelled due to COVID, which applies to tickets with travel after February 1, 2020, and purchased before April 13, 2021. This includes flights cancelled by customers rather than AC.

Going forward (i.e. tickets purchased on or after April 13, 2021), cancelled flights will be refunded if AC does not offer a re-booking option with departure +/- 3 hours from the original time.

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Master thread Air Canada Refunds vs credits; Class action lawsuit filed

Old Jun 29, 2021, 8:51 pm
  #1621  
 
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I got the same emails tonight but ignored them. Assumed they were related to previous bookings I had converted to travel vouchers and used to rebook new itineraries with. My bookings are still intact
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Old Jun 29, 2021, 9:30 pm
  #1622  
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The booking I got it for has some UN segments, which I thought might have been the issue (active PNR with cancelled segments), but I intend to take the trip, so I ignored it.
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Old Jun 29, 2021, 11:01 pm
  #1623  
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Originally Posted by mapleg
Received this e mail tonight:

This is not a trip I have cancelled and as far as I know it is still on the go. It shows up as a confirmed booking in my AC/Aeroplan account and in the app (This is a paid fare, not reward)

May give them a call to see what's going on, but if anyone has any experience with similar e mails, I would appreciate their advice. Thanks
Originally Posted by WesternCDN
I got the same emails tonight but ignored them. Assumed they were related to previous bookings I had converted to travel vouchers and used to rebook new itineraries with. My bookings are still intact
The question for both of you would be, even if the trips are currently intact, at some point, did AC cancel one of the flights on your PNR? If so, even if you've re-booked (or accepted AC's re-booking), you would be eligible for a refund.

For example, you were booked on AC102 on August 10 and that got cancelled, you re-booked on AC104 for the same date. AC102 was cancelled and therefore you're due a refund if you want one, even though you might be perfectly happy to fly AC104.
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Old Jun 30, 2021, 5:53 am
  #1624  
 
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Originally Posted by Adam Smith
The question for both of you would be, even if the trips are currently intact, at some point, did AC cancel one of the flights on your PNR? If so, even if you've re-booked (or accepted AC's re-booking), you would be eligible for a refund.

For example, you were booked on AC102 on August 10 and that got cancelled, you re-booked on AC104 for the same date. AC102 was cancelled and therefore you're due a refund if you want one, even though you might be perfectly happy to fly AC104.
My flight has had nothing cancelled..it was not a rebook of a previous flight...just a flight to Europe in Jan 22 on AC (but the return portion is UA). Booking still intact on AC and UA systems, so I am just putting it down as a glitch.
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Old Jun 30, 2021, 10:10 am
  #1625  
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Originally Posted by Adam Smith
The question for both of you would be, even if the trips are currently intact, at some point, did AC cancel one of the flights on your PNR? If so, even if you've re-booked (or accepted AC's re-booking), you would be eligible for a refund.
This is great. I had a 10hr schedule change, and rebooked for a later date. Was still able to refund thanks to this info, and now dont have to fly AC

Still waiting for a partial refund (in form of voucher) from a cancelled return flight that was paid for with a voucher. Approching 3 months.

Last edited by rankourabu; Jun 30, 2021 at 10:30 am
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Old Jun 30, 2021, 6:35 pm
  #1626  
 
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I'm in the same boat, I rebooked my cancelled flight, and the rebooked flight might go ahead in 17 days, but if it does, I won't be allowed entry to Japan, so I might have to cancel for a refund. Curious about the email though.
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Old Jul 1, 2021, 12:31 pm
  #1627  
 
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AC tells US DOT to pound sand regarding the enforcement proceedings for extreme refund delays
https://viewfromthewing.com/air-cana...m=BoardingArea

Docket: https://www.regulations.gov/document...2021-0073-0005
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Old Jul 1, 2021, 3:44 pm
  #1628  
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Originally Posted by hoipolloi
AC tells US DOT to pound sand regarding the enforcement proceedings for extreme refund delays
https://viewfromthewing.com/air-cana...m=BoardingArea

Docket: https://www.regulations.gov/document...2021-0073-0005
Didnt read the whole thing but it sounds like a rehash of ACs response to passenger filed complaint (discussed earlier in this thread) that DoTs Industry Letter is not binding as it didnt go thru rule making process (APA). DoT had fully authority for decades (not just years) under various Republican and Democratic Administrations to prohibit the the practice frowned upon in the Letter with explicit regulations but choose not to.

If AC loses, other airlines are not going to be happy with them.

I was worried a couple of months ago when AC started providing refunds that the resolution is anticlimactic but sounds like I should be making some popcorn.
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Old Jul 1, 2021, 3:52 pm
  #1629  
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Originally Posted by seawolf
Didnt read the whole thing but it sounds like a rehash of ACs response to passenger filed complaint (discussed earlier in this thread) that DoTs Industry Letter is not binding as it didnt go thru rule making process (APA). DoT had fully authority for decades (not just years) under various Republican and Democratic Administrations to prohibit the the practice frowned upon in the Letter with explicit regulations but choose not to.

If AC loses, other airlines are not going to be happy with them.

I was worried a couple of months ago when AC started providing refunds that the resolution is anticlimactic but sounds like I should be making some popcorn.
Make a big bucket with extra butter, this is going to get good - especially given the DOT industry letter was a significant primer for the CC issuer telling AC to go pound sand when it sided with my client's charge back. It's an odd position to take given AC's reputation for dealing with this issue from the get-go and being strong-armed into giving the refunds by the Canadian govt, something they never would have done voluntarily. It's also a strange position to take when you're a foreign airline whose access to the US market can be affected by the very DOT whose belly you're poking.
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Old Jul 1, 2021, 5:30 pm
  #1630  
 
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It's galling that Air Canada continues to blatantly lie that their position is consistent with the Contract of Carriage and Tariff, and that refunds prior to the pandemic were goodwill gestures - their International Tariff, which applies to flights from the U.S., did call for refunds upon request for flights canceled by the airline up until its update on January 6, 2020, which changed the wording to only offer credits for flights canceled for reasons "outside the airline's control".

And of course, their current position presumes the cancellations were beyond their control, which they haven't proven - in my case, Delta continued operating the route that Air Canada suspended (DTW-YYZ) throughout the pandemic.
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Old Jul 1, 2021, 6:20 pm
  #1631  
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Originally Posted by strickerj
It's galling that Air Canada continues to blatantly lie that their position is consistent with the Contract of Carriage and Tariff, and that refunds prior to the pandemic were goodwill gestures - their International Tariff, which applies to flights from the U.S., did call for refunds upon request for flights canceled by the airline up until its update on January 6, 2020, which changed the wording to only offer credits for flights canceled for reasons "outside the airline's control".

And of course, their current position presumes the cancellations were beyond their control, which they haven't proven - in my case, Delta continued operating the route that Air Canada suspended (DTW-YYZ) throughout the pandemic.
​​​​​​
Not only that what really boggle the mind is how government restrictions prevent a particular AC LGA-YYZ flight from being operated (thus no refund) but magically does not affect other AC flights between the same city pairs on the very same day.
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Old Jul 3, 2021, 5:02 am
  #1632  
 
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Perhaps Eckert Seamans, the law firm hired by AC for this case, is advising AC to continue challenging refunds just so that the law firm can get more billable hours
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Old Jul 3, 2021, 8:04 am
  #1633  
 
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Can't believe the arrogance of this airline. The President should simply ban AC from US airspace until all refunds and fines are paid. While such a ban could be challenged in court the airline stands to lose a lot of money from passengers who don't want to book for fear of being stranded.Another reason airlines feel they can get away with things is that airline managers are not liable, only the company. Governments should start fining the employees who make these decisions. You'll see them make the right decisions in the future.
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Old Jul 3, 2021, 8:28 pm
  #1634  
 
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Originally Posted by strickerj
It's galling that Air Canada continues to blatantly lie that their position is consistent with the Contract of Carriage and Tariff, and that refunds prior to the pandemic were goodwill gestures - their International Tariff, which applies to flights from the U.S., did call for refunds upon request for flights canceled by the airline up until its update on January 6, 2020, which changed the wording to only offer credits for flights canceled for reasons "outside the airline's control".

And of course, their current position presumes the cancellations were beyond their control, which they haven't proven - in my case, Delta continued operating the route that Air Canada suspended (DTW-YYZ) throughout the pandemic.
​​​​​​
What is considered as "Uncontrollable" within the context of COVID-19 cancellations has guidance from the CTA via Determination No. A-2020-42 actually (Link: https://otc-cta.gc.ca/node/569158) It states:[8] Section 10 of the APPR provides a non-exhaustive list of situations considered outside the air carriers control (the third category above). These include medical emergencies and orders or instructions from state officials. In the context of the COVID-19 pandemic, the following would be considered outside a carriers control:
  • flight disruptions to locations that are covered by a government advisory against travel or unnecessary travel due to COVID-19;
  • employee quarantine or self-isolation due to COVID-19;
  • employee refusal to work under Part II of the Canada Labour Code, R.S.C, 1985, c. L-2, (or equivalent law) due to COVID-19; and
  • additional hygiene or passenger health screening processes put in place due to COVID-19.
Note that bolded part is mine. As Canada has issued a non-essential travel advisory for ALL international travel back on March 13, 2020, thus, any cancellations between Canada and the United States can be deemed an "uncontrollable" cancellation per CTA's guidance materials via this determination. Whether or not another airline is still operating between the same two city pairs is immaterial.
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Old Jul 3, 2021, 9:33 pm
  #1635  
 
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Originally Posted by nli007
What is considered as "Uncontrollable" within the context of COVID-19 cancellations has guidance from the CTA via Determination No. A-2020-42 actually (Link: https://otc-cta.gc.ca/node/569158) It states:[8] Section 10 of the APPR provides a non-exhaustive list of situations considered outside the air carriers control (the third category above). These include medical emergencies and orders or instructions from state officials. In the context of the COVID-19 pandemic, the following would be considered outside a carriers control:
  • flight disruptions to locations that are covered by a government advisory against travel or unnecessary travel due to COVID-19;
  • employee quarantine or self-isolation due to COVID-19;
  • employee refusal to work under Part II of the Canada Labour Code, R.S.C, 1985, c. L-2, (or equivalent law) due to COVID-19; and
  • additional hygiene or passenger health screening processes put in place due to COVID-19.
Note that bolded part is mine. As Canada has issued a non-essential travel advisory for ALL international travel back on March 13, 2020, thus, any cancellations between Canada and the United States can be deemed an "uncontrollable" cancellation per CTA's guidance materials via this determination. Whether or not another airline is still operating between the same two city pairs is immaterial.
By that logic, any maintenance delay or cancellation between Canada and the U.S. for the last year and a half would be covered. I'd interpret the bolded part as being a disruption as a result or consequence of the advisory.
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