Stranger

Except that's the -400 combi, 1990-2003. Which I remember well, nice J cabin upstairs. Apparently never made them any money Flew on them quite a bit on YYZ-FRA. I don't think I ever flew on the -200 combi, which they operated 1975-1999 apparently.

24left

I was thinking about your post when I read this Bloomberg bit.

Desperate Airlines Switch Passengers for Cargo to Stay Alive

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/desperat...live-1.1412432


A month ago, I read how some airlines had already shifted to cargo onboard pax aircraft. At least AC is now doing this too. In recent days, some great photos and video clips have surfaced of how cargo is loaded in the cabins. Some airlines cover the seats with plastic and load the boxes and then tie it all down. Other airlines are removing seats.

Admiral Ackbar

Could not see if it had winglets on that pic so was not sure if it was a -200. Flew on the -200 in the mid-80s for my first TATL (family friend ran AC ops at CDG back in the day) and again in the late 90s when I lived in Paris for the first time. As with all 747s, loved flying on it.

Fiordland

AC now has 767-300 that they can continue to use for passenger flights or convert to cargo. Under the current climate going forward should be expect those to retain their current role in the AC fleet? I would be surprised.

CargoJet is the former cargo division of Canada 3000. Not certain I would use the term "scrap little startup" to describe them. Perhaps the term scrappy would apply.

24left

It would be cool to see something like this from AC - assuming they load some cargo in the cabin too (12 sec clip)

YEG USER

IIRC AC has issued photos like this in the past. I'm thinking of when relief supplies were sent to foreign disaster zones? Haiti earthquake and one of the US hurricanes? Maybe some other times?

Jagboi

The quick spotting feature is the -100/200 have the short upper deck, it's much longer on a -400. The photo is a -400.

The Lev

The answer to my question from AC is that yes they are prepared to run charter cargo-only flights to China. Unfortunately unlike the Austrain airlines image posted above, AC is not currently able to stuff things in the passenger compartment. That means unless you are shipping really heavy stuff, you will cube out long before hitting maximum weight.

Cost was lower than what I would have expected.

Adam Smith

The Lev , thanks for starting this interesting thread. And thanks to you and WaytoomuchEurope for some real-world data points on this

When you say "convert to cargo", what do you mean? Are you talking about a permanent freighter conversion under the BCF or similar program? Or just temporarily using the fin to run belly cargo and no pax? The mainline ones and a handful of the rouge ones are at the end of their lives, a permanent freighter conversion wouldn't make any sense.

There are some suitable candidates at rouge, but AC hasn't run all-cargo aircraft in... ever? If you're thinking of permanent freighter conversions, more likely they would sell the frames to someone who specializes in the business.

If it's just temporary belly cargo use you're thinking of, who knows, but right now it looks like all of the 763s have been parked, save for one mainline one that flew down to MEX tonight. Whether that's a relief flight or something else, not sure. But it seems likely that the 763s aren't attractive for the all-cargo flights that AC is currently running.

Neat, thanks

Fiordland

The market that rouge was going after is spooked and honestly it is probably a good two years before that market returns. The business market that AC is after will return much sooner. The same is going to apply to all of AC competitors . There is going to be less passanger aircraft between North America and Europe for the next few years. That belly cargo is going to have to go somewhere.

AC has managed to go into nearly every other market from flying sports teams to leisure to mainline. Why not back into Cargo. I don't think they are going to spent the money re configuring the existing 767 to a mainline configuration. They are left with either trying to get out of leases on 767 there were planning to keep in rouge for a few years, parking the aircraft or trying to sell them to someone.

Why not take a few of the 767 that are still worth converting and turn them into freighters. If at some point it does not make sense to operate that business anymore they can sell off the freighters to Amazon. Given the 767 is already in the fleet they already have the pilots and maintenance people.

Jagboi

Time may actually be an issue. Friend of mine works for a company that has manufacturing facilities in China. A container with the main product was sent by sea, and an additional package of extra spare parts was sent by air within a day of each other. The container that came by sea/rail actually beat the air freight consignment to Calgary, as the air freight sat in HKG for over 2 weeks waiting for a flight to Canada.

TheCanuckian

I see two flights heading to Shannon this morning: RV 2384 (out of YHZ) and AC 2344 (out of YYZ). Would these potentially be cargo flights?

TheCanuckian

And now there's a third, RV 2399 from YUL. What on earth?

ChrisA330

AC was planning on removing 2 rouge 767s from the fleet this year based on their last quarterly earnings release, and the 2 rouge fins headed to SNN happen to be leased by leasing companies based in Ireland. Doesn't explain why there's a 787 headed there too though.

TheCanuckian

Interesting. Unfortunately, if that's the case, these are two of younger Rouge 767s: C-FIYE which is 17 and C-FJZK which is "merely" 19. Maybe the 787 is just a super-expensive charter to get the Rouge pilots back home…