24left

CTV News - Sunday, February 23, 2020 9:48AM PST

https://bc.ctvnews.ca/b-c-women-say-...nada-1.4824004

QUOTE:

"VANCOUVER -- A Simon Fraser University professor and an executive at BC Housing want Air Canada to review its corporate culture after both women say they experienced racial discrimination while flying."

RangerNS

Little do they know that the AC uniformed jerks are capable of being entirely colour blind.

24left

These women in the CTV report feel that the treatment they received by AC employees was worse because they were Black, or that they were racially profiled. I am not in a position to say yes or no, but I can sympathize.

What I do know is these stories make it to the media when AC ignores or dismisses complaints of poor customer experience.

On this forum, we have the idiotic episode of the YQB GA and singling out the couple and their dog. We have an episode of a younger woman who was in J but the FA held her back from deplaning because she didn't think this person was a J pax (IIRC). We have the thread I started with examples of AC GAs challenging my right to stand in the SE, Zone 1 and Priority lines, based on their assumption that I didn't belong.

There are plenty of other examples on and off FT.

The thing is, people on FT tend to be FFs or they may not be FFs but they are on FT because they understand the challenges of flying and want to learn to help solve problems and improve their experiences. The vast majority of the flying public know nothing of FT or any similar resources and even if they did, many don't have the time.

In reading the CTV article here, I saw the same words and similar experiences to what I had with the SE line check-in agent at YVR and the GA at YUL. the difference is, I have more experience in how to deal with these things and sometimes, who to contact to let them know that some "additional training might be required".

I've had some really bad experiences with AC, most since I became MM. As SE MM, I expect better, but as a woman and well, average human, I have low expectations. I choose my battles and once in a while, getting my experience across to someone is worth it - not for me, but for the next customer who is on the receiving end of poor treatment.

I had an absolutely awful and idiotic experience with a deflated seat, an inexperienced SD on AC 118 last year, which some of you know about. I wrote to the VP of in-flight. I never received a reply- no auto-reply, not thanks we appreciate you letting us know, no template reply from an assistant or even an intern. I made it clear in the letter that I did not want anything (translation for you: no comp). What I wanted is for the company to know that some of their cabin crew need more training and need to stop making stuff up when they don't know the answer.

Months later, bits of what I wrote started to surface, so I knew the message was heard, even if I didn't see improvement.

AC is not alone in this. It happens at other airlines, it happens in other industries and businesses. But if baffles me that AC doesn't understand how to manage its public dealings in these types of events. Maybe it's the lawyer and liability mentality, but you know, not everyone wants something. Most people would be happy not to have been barked at by an AC employee and most don't care about a $200 coupon.
.

MSPeconomist

It sounds like that "additional training" either didn't occur or wasn't effective.

24left

I wouldn't know, but I have knowledge and resources of how to solve some problems without escalating them to management. I would never go to the media but I absolutely understand why people do. Look at the current mess with compensation for delays since the new legislation.

AC offers endless sources of entertainment when problems occur and even when there are no problems but you got an employee who was in "a mood". As my first boss once taught me, "we will always have clients with problems. That's why we're here. It isn't always about the problem but how you manage it or solve it". (I'm sure others here will disagree with me but that's ok too.)

The issue is, many AC customers end up with a problem, not alway of their own making and can't find a solution, get upset and exasperated and call the CBC, CTV, or Global News.

KenHamer

Some people make FT good.

Others make it great.

YEG USER

Was this bad customer service, it sure appears that way. Escalating the situation by taking pictures of employees doesn't help things.

However, I don't see where race enters into this. Even the complainant acknowledges that this will be an uphill battle. I don't understand why people automatically assume that they're being discriminated against.

A few weeks ago I was seated in J on a short haul flight in an aisle seat. The SD came around and introduced herself to the SE's in the cabin by just welcoming them on board. The lady who was seated in the window made a comment to me afterwards about how she didn't get welcomed on board because she was a woman. I explained that it had nothing to do with sexual discrimination, that AC typically welcomes their top tier members in Business, and that if I was a woman I'd have received the same welcome. She was satisfied with the explanation, but was quite upset when she (incorrectly) assumed that she was being discriminated against due to her gender.

Stranger

Alas, to me this reads like the standard way AC folks deals with people in economy, regardless of race... Plus an assumption that the "bad" treatment has to do with race, or in other words, an assumption that AC folks would not treat other people in the same way, which surely is incorrect?

Like, assuming that a "comfort fare" would improve treatment, come on? On the same case, what about requesting a wheelchair when booking or ahead of time?

FifthBiz

Trying to take a picture of an Gate Agent? She was lucky they didn’t just rip up her boarding pass right there and offered her an out.

Passenger escalates scenario and gate agent denies them service under the tariff. This seems more of a passenger behaving poorly and less of racism.

She lied about deleting the photo and got compensation. I think that’s better than most of us would have gotten.

RatherBeInYOW

I'm a middle aged white guy, so I cannot presume to know what discrimination feels like. But I know it happens to people who aren't in my shoes all the time, and I can understand how people could assume that bad treatment from AC could amount to discrimination. Maybe in these cases it was, I wasn't there and we'll probably never really know.

But given the number of issues reported on this forum that happen with AC, even to us middle aged white guys, I'm more inclined to apply Occam's razor. For example, two weeks ago connecting home in YYZ I was going for an earlier flight, but I was going to need to run to make it. Concierge had already put me on the waiting list. I sprint up to the gate sweating and ask the agent if she's cleared standby and she gives me this annoyed look and says, and I quote "the flight is full, go away". There is already a bunch of people standing around the gate waiting to try and get on the plane as well. I decide to wait around to see what happens while she resolves an issue with a lady with a GTE boarding pass ... then I guess there is one seat left on the plane and guess who is #1 on the list. She calls my name and she wordlessly hands me my BP and points to the other agent as if to tell me to board. I know that is just a gate agent having a bad day, and not the norm, because I fly a lot ... but it isn't exactly uncommon either. As a middle aged white SE I can't explain the rude behaviour as anything else than an agent being rude. But I could sure see how someone not in my shoes would assume the agent held another bias.

TLDR; 24left is right - AC has a bigger problem here. Even if their agents deal with things well 99% of the time you are talking about thousands of crappy interactions a day which if not handled well end up in articles like this. Whether the employees in this situation discriminated against these people, or were just plain being rude.

mctaste

some people will always assume racism, rather than just bad customer service (which everyone receives.)

seems like life would be easier if you went with the latter.

canadiancow

That's generally my opinion. Sometimes I had my age explicitly commented on, which removed all doubt.

Another time, there were 5 SEs in J and 1 in Y, and the SD introduced himself to the 4 SEs who were 40+, but not the 2 of us under 30. I assumed that was based on age, but I have no evidence.

Every other time, I assume it's just bad service. Most of the discrimination reports I've read on FT match things I've experienced, and I'm a slowly-aging white male. I assume it's not discrimination when it happens to me, and I assume it's not discrimination when it happens to you.

"You're too young to be Super Elite" while standing in the SE line was pretty clear.
"You're too black/female/whatever to be Super Elite" would be just as clear.
"I'm only helping SEs, go away" is crap service, but much more likely to be based on your attire or the agent's general attitude than any form of racial discrimination.

Arcanum

Ironically, all AC needs to do to win is show the tribunal they routinely treat people of other races just as badly. That's hardly a challenge. Ask a random Canadian of any ethnicity and odds are they'll have a story of bad AC customer service to share.

The fundamental problem is AC's rotten corporate culture. It's pervasive but particularly bad at YYZ.

Symmetre

While it certainly sounds like horrible customer service, I don't see anything in the news report that suggests any sort of racial discrimination on any level.

Either there's more to the story than what's being presented (which seems to often be the case) or the OP is perhaps over-reacting (as also happens from time to time).

Fiordland

Yes, not certain we know enough. In both cases it is poor customer service but it is unclear why.
We also expect the airline to handle cases of racism among the passengers in an appropriate way. This little add from a few years ago in Portugal is a perfect example of the type of situation I am certain unfortunately still pops up everyday on flights.