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Can Air Canada lie about the reason for delay?

Can Air Canada lie about the reason for delay?

Old Jan 18, 20, 4:14 pm
  #1  
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Post Can Air Canada lie about the reason for delay?

Air Canada bumped us off the next flight stranding us in -28 degrees with no food,accommodation or winter clothes for four days. At the initial flight, the captain announced the plan was delayed due to mechanical fault and indeed the food voucher they gave at airport had "controllable delay" written in it. However when I contacted them for stay/food for the next 3 days they denied it and said flight was delayed due to weather. This is not true because other planes took off at the same time and they refused to give the ATC report.

Why would they lie: The recently changed Canadian laws means airlines have to compensate for stay/food with the exception of weather related delay. I am absolutely sure Air Canada is sweeping all delays as weather related even if it's not.
Is there a way to find out other than going the lawyer route which is going to cost us ton of money? I was with a three year toddler and we were bleeding through the nose for walking in -28 with no clothes or shoes looking for hotels but Air Canada is not even reimbursing the food. Except for $40 vouchers which no one accepted anyway. How can I find out the real reason of delay.
Strangely flightaware says it was on time though it was 1.5 hours late Usual take off time is 6:20 am but it took off at around 7:30 am
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Old Jan 18, 20, 4:16 pm
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This is the flight aware link flightaware. com/live/flight/ACA480/history/20191219/1130Z/CYYZ/CYUL
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Old Jan 18, 20, 4:27 pm
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I am not following your story...

Were you bumped or delayed? If bumped, why would it be for 4 days.... there are near-hourly flights between YYZ and YUL.

Where was it -28? Weather for YYZ that day shows high of -6..why did you have to walk outside to find a hotel? You can book from the airport and use their shuttle.

If you are looking for help, maybe put the emotion aside and explain clearly what happened and what advice you are seeking.
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Old Jan 18, 20, 7:05 pm
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I was on a fight that was delayed by 4 hours last week. At 1 AM the day of the departure I was told my 4 pm departure was late due to "late arrival of aircraft". I saw that the aircraft had had a technical issue. However, when I got the the airport for my departure back to YYZ I was told the aircraft was late due to weather in Toronto. All communications from Air Canada.
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Old Jan 18, 20, 7:40 pm
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Originally Posted by MQS007 View Post
I was on a fight that was delayed by 4 hours last week. At 1 AM the day of the departure I was told my 4 pm departure was late due to "late arrival of aircraft". I saw that the aircraft had had a technical issue. However, when I got the the airport for my departure back to YYZ I was told the aircraft was late due to weather in Toronto. All communications from Air Canada.
I had similar experiences this week, in one case a 10 minute late inbound changed to a 3 hour departure delay due to "weather". While the delay commentary becoming more opaque in EF was likely due to the Amadeus transition (and IMO those details are sorely missed), it seems like no coincidence that all of these changes are timed around the new delay provisions on the pax bill of rights.
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Old Jan 18, 20, 8:46 pm
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Originally Posted by kapitanflyer View Post
Can Air Canada lie about the reason for delay?
Yes. It's amazing how many things have become weather delays. But mechanical can also be deemed out of their responsibility for the purposes of the new Canadian act, because Parliament just caved to AC, WS, etc in allowing them to exclude delays related to "safety".

As suggested by Plumber above, we may be able to help you better if you provide more info.

P.S. Welcome to FT!
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Old Jan 18, 20, 9:48 pm
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I am sorry for your tribulations. However, I am unable to understand exactly what happened to your party when and where.

Generally speaking, Canadian air passenger protections have been weakened recently. Please send a written letter to the Minister of Transportation, Marc Garneau.

If you send it to his office at the Parliament (he is an MP as well), no postage is due. It's not going to solve your individual problem, but if enough people write, the rules will be improved.
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Old Jan 18, 20, 10:06 pm
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Granting that -28C would be uncomfortable, where were you that someone that can afford air travel have you put outside for more than a walk from inside to a cab to inside?

You may be due compensation by law. You may be due compensation ethically. But you are always responsible for #1 .
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Old Jan 18, 20, 10:15 pm
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As above, we need more details in order to help you.

Some very specific questions:
- How many people were in your group?
- What date was your original flight booked for?
- What flight number was your original flight?
- Did you pre-book a specific seat on the plane?
- When you checked in, did your boarding pass have a seat number for you?
- When did Air Canada tell you that you were bumped? After boarding had started?
- What date was your replacement flight (the one you eventually took)?
- What flight number was your replacement flight?
- When were you told exactly which replacement flight you'd take? As soon as you were bumped, or days later?
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Old Jan 18, 20, 10:32 pm
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I also do not understand why looking for a hotel requires walking around outside.
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Old Jan 19, 20, 12:42 am
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To address OPís original question:

Can Air Canada lie about the reason for delay?
Yes they can.

Does Air Canada lie about the reason for delay? Thatís another question. To answer it, letís look at how else the question might be framed:

Has AC in the past provided false or misleading information to passengers? Yes, frequently. AC is not known for the reliability of information they provide to passengers.

Have they done so intentionally? Some individual employees have knowingly provided speculative, incomplete or misleading information to passengers, usually because theyíre busy or disinterested and just want you to go away.

Does AC intentionally lie about the reason for a delay? No comment.
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Old Jan 19, 20, 1:42 am
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Here is the substantive breakdown of what happened.
Flight is AC480 from Toronto to Fort De France via Air Canada with a layover in Montreal on Dec 19th. Family of 3 with a 3 year old toddler.
The flight is supposed to take off from Toronto at 6:20 am and land at Montreal around 7:30am and the next flight to Fort De France is at 8:40am. (flightaware. com/live/flight/ACA480/history/20191219/1130Z/CYYZ/CYUL)
It's the one single ticket/airline bought directly from Air Canada.

Flight is delayed at Toronto by close to an hour. We are stuck in the tarmac and captain announces that it's a "luggage trolley stuck under the plane". Other planes are taking off at the same time so it kind of rules out weather.
At 7:40am, nearly an hour later while still on the tarmac, we get an automated email from Air Canada that we have been rebooked for Dec 22nd; 4 days later.

We land at 8:30 am on Dec 19 in Montreal. FDF plane takes off without us (as we have been rebooked already for 22nd).

Air Canada offers us $40 food voucher (stating "controllable delay" corroborating what the captain said) and a voucher for Holiday inn (but does not book a room). Food voucher doesn't work and Holiday inn has rooms only for one day (un)fortunately as it's Christmas time. I book the next hotel downtown online as Holiday inn doesn't seem to have any rooms for next day.
Dec 20 we checkout at 11 am and take a cab to hotel downtown but we have no food, clothes and checkin is at 3 pm.
We walk downtown to buy clothes & food with weather in Montreal at -28 and spend the rest of time in shopping mall. Weather underground historical displays Montreal at -20; with windchill it was around -28.

Air Canada supports systems were all down. Emails, phones, desk at airport (Is there even one?).
I email in Jan and AIr Canada refused absolutely any compensation due to "weather" and refused to provide ATC report of weather for delayed take off.
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Old Jan 19, 20, 1:46 am
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Originally Posted by Sopwith View Post
To address OPís original question:

Does AC intentionally lie about the reason for a delay? No comment.
This is exactly what I want to know and I have written proof contradicting what they are saying. The voucher says "controllable delay" which is mechanical issue but the reimbursement refusal letter says "Weather delay"
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Old Jan 19, 20, 2:02 am
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Originally Posted by Plumber View Post
I am not following your story...

Were you bumped or delayed? If bumped, why would it be for 4 days.... there are near-hourly flights between YYZ and YUL.

Where was it -28? Weather for YYZ that day shows high of -6..why did you have to walk outside to find a hotel? You can book from the airport and use their shuttle.

If you are looking for help, maybe put the emotion aside and explain clearly what happened and what advice you are seeking.
I will try to be more substantiative
Originally Posted by Plumber View Post
I am not following your story...

Were you bumped or delayed? If bumped, why would it be for 4 days.... there are near-hourly flights between YYZ and YUL.

Where was it -28? Weather for YYZ that day shows high of -6..why did you have to walk outside to find a hotel? You can book from the airport and use their shuttle.

If you are looking for help, maybe put the emotion aside and explain clearly what happened and what advice you are seeking.

Here is the substantive breakdown of what happened.


Flight is AC480 from Toronto to Fort De France via Air Canada with a layover in Montreal on Dec 19th. Family of 3 with a 3 year old toddler.
The flight is supposed to take off from Toronto at 6:20 am and land at Montreal around 7:30am and the next flight to Fort De France is at 8:40am on the same day. (flightaware. com/live/flight/ACA480/history/20191219/1130Z/CYYZ/CYUL)

It's one ticket/airline bought directly from Air Canada.

Flight is delayed at Toronto by close to an hour. We are stuck in the tarmac and captain announces that it's a "luggage trolley stuck under the plane". Other planes are taking off at the same time so it kind of rules out weather.
At 7:40am, nearly an hour later while still on the tarmac, we get an automated email from Air Canada that we have been rebooked for Dec 22nd; 4 days later.

We land at 8:30 am on Dec 19 in Montreal. FDF plane takes off without us around 10 minutes later (as we have been rebooked already for 22nd).

Air Canada offers us $40 food voucher (stating "controllable delay" corroborating what the captain said) and a voucher for Holiday inn (but does not book a room). Food voucher doesn't work and Holiday inn has rooms only for one day (un)fortunately as it's Christmas time. I book the next hotel downtown online as Holiday inn doesn't seem to have any rooms for next day.
Dec 20 we checkout at 11 am and take a cab to hotel downtown but we have no food, clothes and checkin is at 3 pm and the hotel doesn't offer lunch/dinner.
We walk downtown to buy clothes & food with weather in Montreal at -28 and spend the rest of time in shopping mall. (Weather underground historical displays Montreal at -20; with windchill it was around -28.)

Air Canada supports systems were all down. Emails, phones, desk at airport (Is there even one?).
I email in Jan and AIr Canada refused absolutely any compensation due to "weather" and refused to provide ATC report of weather for delayed take off.
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Old Jan 19, 20, 2:29 am
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Originally Posted by kapitanflyer View Post
This is exactly what I want to know and I have written proof contradicting what they are saying. The voucher says "controllable delay" which is mechanical issue but the reimbursement refusal letter says "Weather delay"
Air Canada's new Amadeus Altea Passenger Service System brings new capabilities to the airline, including the ability to control the weather. You are simply one of the first to experience the new 'controllable weather delay' function.
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