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Claiming compensation from AC under APPR (Air Passenger Protection Regulations)

Claiming compensation from AC under APPR (Air Passenger Protection Regulations)

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Old Aug 24, 22, 6:47 am   -   Wikipost
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AC Delayed/Cancelled Flight Compensation Threads

There are several threads on compensation for delayed/cancelled flights operated by AC.

If your question is about APPR (Canadian regulations), this is the correct thread.

For information regarding which regime(s) you're eligible for compensation under, or which would be more favourable, please see: Air Canada Compensation For Delayed/Cancelled Flights

For information on claiming compensation under EU rules (a.k.a. EU261 or EC261), please see: Claiming EU261 Compensation from AC
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Old Jan 28, 20, 2:46 pm
  #31  
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Originally Posted by syntxerr View Post
Is there any way to request a followup on this? If they say 'safety' do we have rights to get documents proving such? If a crew goes over - we had a delay for unavailability and they claim safety, can we complain anywhere?
You could try submitting a request under the Canadian Access to Information Act to Canadian airport, Transport Canada, Canadian Transportation Agency or whatever federal entity oversees and receives information about commercial air traffic.

https://atip-aiprp.apps.gc.ca/atip/f...welcome.do#acc

Last edited by yulsee; Jan 28, 20 at 3:56 pm
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Old Jan 28, 20, 3:57 pm
  #32  
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Real reason behind a flight disruption

Do airlines or airports systematically send flight by flight information to some overseeing Canadian government authority, which would include scheduled and actual departure/arrival times, as reasons for delays and cancelations?

Perhaps Transport Canada or the Canadian Transportation Agency regularly receives such information from the airline or airports ? In such case , an individual could make an Access To Information act request to such government agency to counter check the reason behind a flight's disruption versus what the airline agents tell the individual.

was also wondering if Canadian airports are federal or provincial organisations and thus must honor Access To Information Act requests

Last edited by yulsee; Jan 28, 20 at 4:12 pm
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Old Jan 28, 20, 4:00 pm
  #33  
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Originally Posted by yulsee View Post
We have included your original post below:
Do airlines or airports systematically send flight by flight information to some overseeing Canadian government authority, which would include scheduled and actual departure/arrival times, as reasons for delays and cancelations?

Perhaps Transport Canada or the Canadian Transportation Agency regularly receives such information from the airline or airports ? In such case , an individual could make an Access To Information act request to such government agency to counter check the reason behind a flight's disruption versus what the airline agents tell the individual.

was also wondering if Canadian airports are federal or provincial organisations and thus must honor Access To Information Act requests
Whatever system populates EF would probably be the same that sends reports to the government.

I think the only way this would work is if a weather delay causes a crew timeout, and the only information you can get after the fact is "weather".
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Old Jan 28, 20, 4:03 pm
  #34  
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Originally Posted by yulsee View Post
We have included your original post below:
Do airlines or airports systematically send flight by flight information to some overseeing Canadian government authority, which would include scheduled and actual departure/arrival times, as reasons for delays and cancelations?

Perhaps Transport Canada or the Canadian Transportation Agency regularly receives such information from the airline or airports ? In such case , an individual could make an Access To Information act request to such government agency to counter check the reason behind a flight's disruption versus what the airline agents tell the individual.

was also wondering if Canadian airports are federal or provincial organisations and thus must honor Access To Information Act requests
IIRC CTA receives information about airlines but it is classified. And AFAIK that information doesn't come under Access to Information act as it is not pertaining to the individual who is requesting, instead pertaining to the airline.

The individual is not a direct stakeholder in that communication between airline & CTA and thus it can't be forced out from what i know.

Gabor who runs https://airpassengerrights.ca is very vocal on this issue. They might have more info
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Old Jan 28, 20, 4:19 pm
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Originally Posted by FifthBiz View Post
I have a cancelled flight due to lack of crew. Taxis/hotels were provided to all. Im curious to see how it goes.
They'll weasel out of it on the grounds of safety
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Old Jan 28, 20, 4:21 pm
  #36  
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Originally Posted by jugaadkabaap View Post
IIRC CTA receives information about airlines but it is classified. And AFAIK that information doesn't come under Access to Information act as it is not pertaining to the individual who is requesting, instead pertaining to the airline.

The individual is not a direct stakeholder in that communication between airline & CTA and thus it can't be forced out from what i know.

Gabor who runs https://airpassengerrights.ca is very vocal on this issue. They might have more info
I think you're mixing up to different acts which are often mentioned together:
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Old Jan 28, 20, 4:26 pm
  #37  
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Originally Posted by FifthBiz View Post
I have a cancelled flight due to lack of crew. Taxis/hotels were provided to all. Im curious to see how it goes.
https://otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/types-and-...crew-duty-time

Staff shortages and crew duty time

Carriers are responsible for their staff and parties they contract. Therefore, generally speaking, flight disruptions resulting from staff issues would be considered within airlines' control. However, the CTA would take a case-by-case approach to categorizing flights delayed or cancelled for these reasons particularly when the crew goes over duty time (times out). We will consider the following factors, as well as any others that are relevant to the case.
  • The location of the aircraft at the time of the flight disruption, which can affect the scheduling of new crew.
  • Whether there were events affecting the flight that caused the staffing shortage and whether or not those events were outside the airline's control. For example, a weather-related delay, a mechanical malfunction, or other factors."
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Old Jan 28, 20, 5:00 pm
  #38  
 
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Originally Posted by dav662 View Post
This is the problem with the Canadian government. It's a cop out. This is the worst passenger rights bill ever passed.
Totally agree!
It is a silly idea to allow the airlines to decide which claim will be paid and which won't knowing that they are the ones who had the delay in the first place. Of course they will try every trick in the book to weasel themselves out of paying a single penny!

A better and a fair way in my opinion, is to submit claims to the Federal entity in charge (Transport Canada, etc) and let them decide based on facts gathered from the airlines/airport/passenger(s). But, with airlines lobbyists lurking steadily in Governments circles, I can't see this happening anytime soon. To me, it is like removing the judge out of a courtroom and let the accused decide on the outcome for the plaintiff.

This passenger bill of rights is laughable! It is just a "feel good" gesture that actually does nothing for passengers. It will be interesting to see the percentage of payouts vs. claims for delayed flights. But, again, as passengers, we have no way of knowing what was the *real* cause of the delay and if it could it have been avoided.

Last edited by cancruiser; Jan 28, 20 at 9:09 pm
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Old Feb 4, 20, 2:30 pm
  #39  
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Good news! Transport Canada recently established data collections and reporting for airlines.

https://www.tc.gc.ca/en/services/avi...-carriers.html

This means airlines are now required to submit flight performance data monthly on a flight by flight basis to Transport Canada. The data requirement includes delays, cancellations, disruption reasons, denied boarding, lost/damaged baggage and complains.

Normally, we the public will be able to request such data from TC through Acess to Information act requests, so we'll be able to counter-verify the flight disruption reason stated by AC's agents, that is unless AC is lying to Transport Canada as well!

I just submitted a request for an AC flight that I know was delayed then cancelled. Will keep you updated with the results!
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Old Feb 4, 20, 5:06 pm
  #40  
 
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Got a reply from AC denying a claim for a cancelled flight where the inbound originated in YYZ (cancelled there), presumably the largest crew base. Reason stated in email at time of cancellation crew constraints now its safety re mechanical. Offered a lesser amount in Air Canada money. Declined and requested compensation under the regs. Await reply.
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Old Feb 5, 20, 9:11 am
  #41  
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Originally Posted by Altaflyer View Post
Got a reply from AC denying a claim for a cancelled flight where the inbound originated in YYZ (cancelled there), presumably the largest crew base. Reason stated in email at time of cancellation crew constraints now its safety re mechanical. Offered a lesser amount in Air Canada money. Declined and requested compensation under the regs. Await reply.
Yeah. They try to fob off people, or the people processing claims are offshored staff in an outsourced location who process claims hastily to improve their KPIs.

Don't give up. I've seen datapoints of people getting the proper compensation after challenging the initial response. Check the Air Passenger Rights Facebook group.
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Old Feb 5, 20, 9:53 am
  #42  
 
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I'd submitted a claim for a delay > 3 hours where they'd swapped out aircraft. Their response listed the flight as "This flight was delayed due to scheduling issues", but then said "the compensation you are requesting does not apply because the delay was caused by an event outside of our control." So apparently aircraft scheduling is outside of AC's control? There was no weather related delays anywhere at the airport or AC's hubs that day. The meal voucher even said "Delay - Controllable", so clearly someone thought it was within AC's control.

The new Air Passenger rights legislation has been poorly constructed, and it seems like AC is just making up reasons to deny claims, saying they are safety related or outside of their control. Not surprising, but disappointing that AC isn't taking responsibility for legitimate delays.
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Old Feb 5, 20, 9:56 am
  #43  
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They are intentionally making up reasons to say the claims are not eligible to weed out those who give up fast.
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Old Feb 5, 20, 11:53 am
  #44  
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Originally Posted by gcashin View Post
The meal voucher even said "Delay - Controllable", so clearly someone thought it was within AC's control.
Every meal voucher says that.

And meal vouchers are handed out for weather delays (non-controllable, no compensation) and mechanical delays (controllable, no compensation).
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Old Feb 5, 20, 12:48 pm
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Originally Posted by canadiancow View Post
Every meal voucher says that.

And meal vouchers are handed out for weather delays (non-controllable, no compensation) and mechanical delays (controllable, no compensation).
It's been a long time since I've got a meal voucher for a weather delay, but I thought I recalled that meal vouchers for weather related delays said "Delay - Uncontrollable" rather than "Delay - Controllable." And yes, I know there can be controllable delays not covered under the compensation guidelines.

But for AC to say a delay is due to scheduling issues, and then say that aircraft scheduling is outside of AC's control is very misleading.
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