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Claiming compensation from AC under APPR (Air Passenger Protection Regulations)

Claiming compensation from AC under APPR (Air Passenger Protection Regulations)

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Old Aug 24, 22, 6:47 am   -   Wikipost
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AC Delayed/Cancelled Flight Compensation Threads

There are several threads on compensation for delayed/cancelled flights operated by AC.

If your question is about APPR (Canadian regulations), this is the correct thread.

For information regarding which regime(s) you're eligible for compensation under, or which would be more favourable, please see: Air Canada Compensation For Delayed/Cancelled Flights

For information on claiming compensation under EU rules (a.k.a. EU261 or EC261), please see: Claiming EU261 Compensation from AC
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Old Aug 30, 22, 3:49 pm
  #256  
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 390
Originally Posted by cmill007 View Post
Has anyone at all gotten a response from Customer Care after responding to the initial denial email?
I didn't hear back after a week, so I submitted the customer care form again, referencing my original booking confirmation number. I did hear back in a record setting 1:09 (with a resounding no - so I guess AC hasn't changed their position at all).
zappy312 is offline  
Old Sep 1, 22, 3:02 am
  #257  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 42
Originally Posted by zappy312 View Post
Another CTA Decision has come out, this time finding Air Canada at fault for "crew constraints". AC presented more evidence this time (compared to WS). Even though the FO was unable to complete their refresher training, and AC couldn't staff the flight due to the pandemic, the delta variant, new government measures, operational issues, third party staffing issues, and bottlenecked training, the CTA didn't find accept that as unavoidable despite prior planning (or lack thereof).
So, the initial burden of proof is on the applicant to establish that the airline didn't follow APPR, but then it shifts to the airline to support their claim of "safety related" or "out of their control". This is a really good development for consumer rights in these cases. Unfortunately it looks like WestJet is appealing Lareau v WestJet which underlies this decision https://calgary.ctvnews.ca/mobile/a-...easy-1.6040739
poshul is offline  
Old Sep 1, 22, 5:43 pm
  #258  
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Programs: QF, CoUniHound Refugee
Posts: 208
Just received another response from Aer Canada for an APPR compensation claim I put in several weeks back. Essentially AC decided to cancel my direct YSJ > YYZ flight and put me on a connecting flight arriving into YYZ a little over 4 hours later. The cancellation was made 10 days prior to scheduled departure so certainly within APPR. Their response?

Based on the information we have, we have determined that your flight was delayed/cancelled for safety related issues. Regretfully the compensation you are requesting does not apply.

When considering the causes of flight disruptions, the complex nature of airline operations is recognized. Sometimes, there is no one cause for a disruption but multiple causes.

The primary cause, or the most significant contributing factor, determines the obligation for compensation under the Air Passenger Protection Regulations. The primary cause may apply to the flight or an earlier flight that departed from a different city causing a late arrival of the aircraft scheduled to operate a flight.

As a goodwill gesture, I am pleased to provide you with a $500.00CAD Air Canada eCoupon. Please find details of this offer below.
I may pursue them in small claims here given they again have fallen afoul of APPR

-RooFlyer88
kangarooflyer88 is offline  
Old Sep 2, 22, 3:29 pm
  #259  
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 22
As expected Air Canada turned down my claim

After investigation, we have determined that your flight was disrupted due to constraints on ground handling activities beyond the airline’s control. An example of this can occur when staff are required to isolate if they have been exposed to COVID-19. Another example is when ground handling operations are disrupted by third party handling, such as airport security, and customs and immigration processing.
I do not believe this


I followed the incoming flight on FR24.
The incoming plane that was originally schedueled to fly out again as our flight, arrived at YYZ 4 hours before schedueled departure, but was then changed to another flight number.
The original scheduled plane left for another destination 15 minutes after we had our schedueled departure

The plane that eventually departed as our flight had arrived from London 45 minutes(this flight even arrived earlier than schedueled) before our schedueled departure

Of course Ground handling will have problem to do a turnaround of a 777-300 in 45 minutes...

All the delay notification we got on SMS/mail stated it was due to late arrival of aircraft(even that was incorrect)
Even the captain said it was due to late change of aircraft...



What are my options? I really dont want AC to get away with this.
As I am not a Canadian am I able to do small claims or is CTA my next step?
Lars Johansen is offline  
Old Sep 2, 22, 5:09 pm
  #260  
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Programs: QF, CoUniHound Refugee
Posts: 208
Originally Posted by Lars Johansen View Post
As expected Air Canada turned down my claim


I do not believe this


I followed the incoming flight on FR24.
The incoming plane that was originally schedueled to fly out again as our flight, arrived at YYZ 4 hours before schedueled departure, but was then changed to another flight number.
The original scheduled plane left for another destination 15 minutes after we had our schedueled departure

The plane that eventually departed as our flight had arrived from London 45 minutes(this flight even arrived earlier than schedueled) before our schedueled departure

Of course Ground handling will have problem to do a turnaround of a 777-300 in 45 minutes...

All the delay notification we got on SMS/mail stated it was due to late arrival of aircraft(even that was incorrect)
Even the captain said it was due to late change of aircraft...



What are my options? I really dont want AC to get away with this.
As I am not a Canadian am I able to do small claims or is CTA my next step?
Let me guess they gave you a $500 eCoupon as a goodwill gesture? I've put in two claims to Air Canada thus far and have received two eCoupons one for $300 and another for $500 as a gesture of goodwill. Clearly I don't think AC would be throwing around all of this funny money if they didn't recognize they were wrong here and want appease most people so they don't have to take it to the CTA or small claims court.

In terms of options you have a couple: you can appeal the finding to the CTA. The adjudication process may take over a year and there is no guarantee the CTA will rule in your favour, although they have in recent times called such excuses BS when Air Canada and West Jet raised them. They have also recently ruled that AC and WestJet cannot use COVID as an excuse for taking more than 30 days to respond to APPR claims by customer too. The benefit of using this process is it's cheap (basically fill out a form and wait for the CTA to rule). In addition by filing a formal complaint the CTA has another data point they can use when determining whether airlines are following the regulations.

Another alternative is to fill a small claims action in court suing the airline for breach of contract since Air Canada, WestJet and other airlines now must put in their contract of carriage language that they will compensate you with cash in the event of a delay. With this legal theory we aren't arguing about APPR anymore (which is useful if you are suing them outside of Canada) but rather the legal theory of breach of contract. They promised to compensate you with cash for delay but refused to do so breaching their contract with you. The benefit here is you can pursue them anywhere in the world with such action and once you get a judgement that's as good as cash (particularly if the airline operates out of the country you are suing from). The other benefit of such an approach is that the airline may realize that the cost for them to argue their case in court will cost far more than to simply pay you out the judgement, particularly if you are pursuing them in an overseas court. The downsides here are of course the cost of filing the action (could be a hundred dollars or more to file the paperwork with the court and to send notice to AC).

What would obviously be ideal I think would be a class action lawsuit with everyone who has been impacted by these meritless denials by the airlines. Whilst many people would have second thoughts about filing the paperwork and showing up to court to pursue an airline, many would have no qualms signing an affidavit saying an airline wrongly denied them compensation to receive their compensation as a member of the class.

-RooFlyer88
kangarooflyer88 is offline  
Old Sep 14, 22, 9:50 pm
  #261  
 
Join Date: May 2017
Programs: MH Platinum, AC 75k, Accor All Gold, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 485
I filed a claim with APPR back in April and still my status is "The CTA has received a high number of complaints. We process each complaint as quickly as possible, based on its merit, impartially and in a rigorous manner. Once your case has been reviewed, you will be notified. To learn more about the CTA's Dispute Resolution Services , please consult our website"

Is this normal??
quinzinho is offline  
Old Sep 15, 22, 5:12 am
  #262  
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: EXT, sometimes NYC/LON/YQT
Programs: Aeroplan, SPG/Marriott, Radisson Rewards
Posts: 669
Originally Posted by quinzinho View Post
I filed a claim with APPR back in April and still my status is "The CTA has received a high number of complaints. We process each complaint as quickly as possible, based on its merit, impartially and in a rigorous manner. Once your case has been reviewed, you will be notified. To learn more about the CTA's Dispute Resolution Services , please consult our website"

Is this normal??
Sadly, yes. I'm not even sure they've got to cases from this year yet... or even the latter half of last year.
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D404 is offline  
Old Sep 17, 22, 3:36 am
  #263  
vji
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 125
Can anyone help me with the delay reason for AC75 Today (Sep 17)? Looks like the inbound aircraft has a security issue and is delayed 4 hours.

If I have a connection and misconnect and rebook myself over the phone am I still entitled to compensation if it falls within the APPR regulations? Or is that void now because I rebooked myself (rebooked my connection to the next day since there is no way I will connect on time)?
vji is offline  
Old Sep 22, 22, 11:42 am
  #264  
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: ATL
Programs: UA *Gold
Posts: 70
Originally Posted by zappy312 View Post
Is there any reason you didn't submit your claim online, or use the AC Customer Relations address located in Calgary? I'd expect ~30 days or so, assuming paper submissions aren't expedited over online submissions.
Compiled a $3,000 claim after ATH>YYZ>ATL and was marooned for one night in toronto and another 2 in Montreal.

Well, I sent about 30 pages of claim and supporting data including hotel-Uber bills as well as cancellation emails.

Now 2 months after submission to HQ in Montrial and 1 month after Calgary and...crickets.

Will give them another 2 weeks then will retain the UK bounty hunters.

Last edited by golferjoe; Sep 22, 22 at 11:45 am Reason: add detail on original claim
golferjoe is offline  

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